I'v just booked a flight for March, LHR to YWG return, the "L" fare was (UKP)£455 and the "M" fare was £459, if that is going to be the normal difference (£4.00) for a confirmed at booking upgrade, this is not going bother me at all. But no doubt the difference will increase.

Stewart.

Just got off HKG - YVR flight waiting for my flight to YYZ. Seeing all those Canadian/AC aircraft digusts me... I really hated them.
I talked to the FA on the flight, she has worked for CP a very log time and said she is not worry about her job at all.

She also told me to be sure to write/call someone at CP to express out displeasure regarding the new changes to FF program rules. She said that is enough of us make the effort to complain, something will change.

Empress, you've hit on the one good thing in this otherwise offensive arrangement -- the CP employees who worked long and hard, and gave up income and benefits, will have their livelihood protected, at least in the short term.

Otherwise, the whole deal smells. I wouldn't be so offended if Milton and the gang came out back in November and honestly admitted that their would be route cutbacks, fare increases, and a reduction in benefits. 'Course, had they admitted that, they probably would not have been allowed to takeover CP.

The race to the bottom has begun.

Cdn+ Gold kit just arrived in the mail. Many things have been covered in wingwalker’s post, but a few highlights and changes as I see them leafing through the member’s guide follow:

The guide is smaller than in past years, and organized with tabs for ease of locating regs, etc.

Upgrades are part of the guide and found in a tabbed section, thus we will be taking this little booklet along with us on our travels. There are 8 “white” North America 500-miles stickers and 4 “blue” one-way System Wide upgrades. All expire 02/2001. Can be used with fares Y, B, H, K and M within North America (and can also be used on AA). System Wide stickers are usable on these fares within North America, but only on Y and B International fares, and except for Europe which is restricted to Y fares. All are usable only on CP designated flights on CP aircraft (except Rome which can still be flown as a CP codeshare on Alitalia).

No “black” stickers as already noted, with much dispair (and disgust by some).

72-hour advance upgrade booking still possible for Golds. Upgrades at the gate are only from eligible fares as well. (Keep pushing for your idea Fisch, with both carriers.)

Mileage for upgraded travel remains 1 point per mile. Question: Has AC changed theirs, which used to be 125% for upgraded flights? If so, the plans are about the same, but if not, Elite/SuperElite will be easier to reach on AC since both programs now require 35K (Elite/Gold) and 100K (SuperElite/ExecPlat) for these elite tiers.

Early re-qualification bonuses remain: Club by May 31, Gold by July 31, ExecPlat by September 30. 5,000 per re-qualification by time limits, and 50% flight bonus at Gold, 100% at ExecPlat.

Guide contains all lounge information and is written to assume oneworld alliance partnership continues for a while. No mention of AC reciprocal Maple Leaf Lounge access.

Only change to the membership card is the details on rear are now printed in black rather than white. This will make reading phone numbers easier for us older members. The front is still white and gold lettering and logos, as last year. (Hopefully, the white won’t fade from the front as it has on my 1999/2000 card.)

The cover letter indicates “We are in the early stages of working within a restructured industry and are excited about the customer benefits of an expanded network and greater choices within our Canadian Plus program. It is our goal to develop a beneficial program that addesses your needs and recognizes your continued support...”

Interestingly, no mention is made of reciprocal mileage accumulation on AC flights.

Two bag tags also included with the same leather straps as in past years, but the whole package is somewhat smaller.

Must get back to work now. More thoughts after having digested the changes and fine print.

Everything is fine except the most important one --- Upgrades.

There are going to be a lot of unhappy elite members seeing empty J seats yet can't upgrade.

Shareholder, In response to your question, AC is still giving a 25% bonus a Q-miles for J-class service. I just flew YYZ-CDG (AC880), then home via CDG-LHR (BA) and then CP 89 back to YYZ. I had AC and CP miles credited to my AC account, as I am still Elite there (downgraded from SE due to not enough flying http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif ), but no status at all on CP. I received the class of service bonus for J class (booked that way, not upgraded). The BA agent at LHR just about took of my head when I asked for the miles to be credited to a * A carrier, but such is life. The CP agent at the gate was much more helpful and friendly.

MD, you may be correct about the 25% additional credit on AC for the current year which expires next Tuesday. (And from a discounted domestic Y-class ticket, this would go from 50% to 125%!) However, my question relates to the new membership year beginning March 1st. Has AC "downgraded" this to be the same as CP, i.e. 100% on either full Y fare or discounted Y fare?

That would put CP elite accrual at a disadvantage, since I'd want any upgraded travel to count towards AC if I was going to get 125% rather than 50% on a discounted Y-class ticket, or 100% on a full fare one. Both programs now require same mileage to qualify for Elite/SuperElite and Gold/ExecPlat, but you'd get more credit for upgraded AC flights.

There has been no changes to the AC website outlining the class of service bonuses. (checked Feb 24). Still 25% for Executive(First) on AC. Other * A airlines with 3 class service have 25% for business and 50% for First.

As there is no word on any changes, I would have to assume that it will stay in force. Am I naive?

My comments relate to upgraded travel, i.e. the points given when you use a sticker/coupon to upgrade to Business/Executive class from an Economy fare. I now that normal, fully-paid class of service bonuses remain.

Does not anyone else feel this a disadvantage to Cdn+ members over Aeroplan members. It means we must actually fly more miles to get the same benefits an Aeroplan member gets.

This upgraded 25% bonus applies to Q-miles, so it means that someone paying Economy (full fare or even discounted) and getting upgraded all the time, only has to fly 80K on AC to get SuperElite (since they get the 25% bonus, or 20K miles) at 100K.

To do so in the Cdn+ program requires flying 100K if upgraded all the time.

Since both carriers offer 1/2-mile/point per mile flown on non-upgraded discounted Economy fares, there is no problem here, or with fully paid Y or J tickets.

I suspect that Canadian Plus might 'disappear' into Aeroplan soon. Just wait for the day....

But on the upside, does that mean I can tell my friends in Asia who joined CP just to get the 100K promo that they do not have to fly 4 CP segments a year to retain their elite status? I think that requirement is only applicable for OneWorld airlines. And if CP is moving over to STAR, STAR does not have that requirement.

Comments?

Shareholder, I agree with you. The difference in miles for upgraded flights was compensated by the fact that CP only wanted 85k (and there weren't enough upgrades available on AC to upgrade 80k worth, at least not in North America!).

If it's now 100k on AC with the occasional 25% bonus, and 100k on CP without a 25% bonus, it does make it that much harder on CP (for 100k, for 35k, and even 18k, although if Club now equals Prestige in benefits it's a waste of time anyway).

Either there's a misunderstanding (and CP will start giving 25% bonus irrespective of the rules), or this is another subtle way AC is using to drive CP further down before taking it over.

andrew

I got my GOLD package last night and noted with disgust, like everyone else, that the qualification limits were up again. I just did not want to believe it.

In the letter accompanying my package, Kari Grist, Director - Marketing Programs for CP, says "Some changes have been made, with new qualification levels for 2001 and adjustments to the upgrade program. These changes will ensure that the integrity of your membership is maintained, and that you will continue to enjoy the privilidges and benefits of loyalty."

What the heck does all that mean? How can they increase the levels and restrict the use of coupons and still allow me to "enjoy the privilidges and benefits of loyalty"?

We are stuck with CP because of our status. If we moved to AC or AA, we would be at the bottom of the list for the rest of the year since they would not comp any status.

My blood pressure is rising rapidly! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif

I suspect the notion of "integrity" may be coming from complaints of those who have been paying full-fare J that the Business/Executive Class cabin is being "topped off" by too many Golds and ExecPlats (and Elites and SuperElites) using upgrades from ultra-cheap fares. Even in the front cabin it is often nice to have an empty seat from time to time.

Remember that there is still that old "class"/"caste" system around, and the exclusivity of the front cabin (since unlike BA and a few others than maintain an ultra-exclusive F-Class cabin, and hold to a "no upgrades" to F policy except for operational purposes, and then only to those who "look like they shold be there") is being compromised in the view of many who are fortunate to have their companies pay the full shot, or who themselves don't bat an eye at shelling out $3,000 to fly across the country.

Those of us who are not that fortunate to be able to pay the full tariff may not always see it that way. (I believe this is what our friend AC*AE from New York on the AC forum is getting at...) Afterall, we may fly an awful lot, and bring a fair bit of business to the airlines, but for every 10 deep-discount flights many of us take, there are two or three or more pax who are paying full tarriff.

I'm not trying to defend AC or CP, just to present a possible, and in their minds valid, reason for dealing with upgrades the way they have this year.

In particular, as the merger goes through, and more flights are merged or schedules rationalized, neither carrier can estimate the number of full-fare J bookings they will have from one day to the other, or one flight to the next. Yes, they do have software which tries to predict this based on past patterns, but this is a new ballgame and it will take a few weeks of sample data to balance things out and make the patterns apparent. Right now, they don't want to piss off their higher fare paying patrons, so it is easier to filter out the lowest fare paying ones until they know the full statistical story.

As I've posited elsewhere, this is likely why we are also seeing the "phantom passenger" phenomenon, and uncertainty as to whose flight will be actually be flying on major transcons even though the sked may continue to list both of them.

Although we'd like to think of ourselves -- those who post regularly on FlyerTalk -- as the elite of FFs, the reality is that we are a relatively small number of flyers, and of upper level elites. There are many thousands of elites who, by virtue of their employment and corporate status, who don't particularly care about these things and who can afford full-fare flights. When the airlines talk about the 5% of their customers who give them 60% of their revenue (or whatever the numbers are), they are not always talking about us. (And in this I don't mean to generalize myself, but from the postings here, if we did pay more than the least expensive fare, few would be complaining about the changes. Except maybe losing the privilege of the "Ultimate Upgrade".)

This means we should not let our displeasure be known, and note the loopholes or variances between AC and CP programs when we spot them, but we should also recognize that we may not always be listened too. That's life. That's the markeplace. It's not fair. But humankind evolves to deal with such changes in his/her environment, and we may have to in this case too.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to put "us" down, but just provide more context. "Ration" over "Passion", as Trudeau (and artist Joyce Weyland) used to say in the 70s.

I just hope EMPRESS doesn't go over the top this weekend, and become a case of Age Rage. If that happens, he may have no choice but to fly to Vancouver through the 'States. I will be checking back later today to see how his travels have gone. And WINGWALKER who is also on the way to YVR from YYZ. As I suggested to EMPRESS in a private Email yesterday, it is a beautiful mild sunny day here in YEG, so if he's got an hour connection, take a short walk outside the terminal building and enjoy the interruption to your trip, take in the Big Sky, and check out the retired two DC-10s on the tarmac. Don't fight the fates that brought this upon you... Savour the good that they have provided you with.

I also just received my 2000 Gold package yesterday along with a separate envelope (post-marked Feb 24) containing a full-page letter from Kari Grist. Nothing in the letter was really 'news' to any of us, however, one line caught my eye - "CP and AC are working on reciprocal...upgrade privileges, which we hope to have in place in the near future". Interesting. Now to search for those fare classes that qualify for the upgrades... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

BTW, upon looking over my Gold 'booklet' I placed a call to CPlus regarding the status of the remaining valid red, grey and black upgrades that some us may have leftover. I was told by the agent that a circular came out earlier this week which outlined the policy. When calling ahead for a confirmed upgrade prior to departure, the res agents will be required to ask which colour stickers will be used for the upgrade (when travelling on a N V or Q fare). Old rules will be honoured for the red, grey and black stickers and new rules will apply with the white and blue stickers. Hmmm...hopefully all agents will actually read the circular. I am currently doing inventory of my reds (all my greys are gone) and putting those blacks in my safety deposit box. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Overall, I am quite content with my package for 2000 and actually liked the fact that they reduced the amount of paper used in printing everything this time (saving $$$). Although, I am planning to mail back my luggage tags as I personally find them sort of tacky.