carbo

I'm a loyal Cplus member who flies a great deal for work (gold 3 yrs so far) but the new changes have left me out in the cold. I don't want to fly AC (or any star airline - don't like the service and don't like what they did to my favorite airline) so that leaves me with selecting another 1W airline. Which is the best card to have? I will be living in the states but travelling internationally. Any opinions on this out there?

FewMiles

I wonder if any of the 1W alliance partners are willing to "transfer" points, comp. status, etc. to gain the loyalty of CPlus members who aren't too happy with Miltoncorp and/or star alliance. Maybe for Gold or EPs? No good for me unfortunately...

dirkster

for some surreal browsing check out oneworldalliance.com website - the press releases don't even acknowledge the impending loss of CP. Instead there is some bumf about a new 1W management team locating in YVR. I am going to email them, encouraging them to reach out to Cplus members by transferring status at least (if not points)I encourage others to do same.
Updated: good luck finding out how to contact or email someone at 1W - website doesn't even have a "contact us" area or anything except referring media back to any one of member airlines. They mention a new manager of oMC oneworld management company, Mr. Peter Buecking, who is supposed to head up oMC from YVR but that's it. I really think they've dropped the ball here.

[This message has been edited by dirkster (edited 02-13-2000).]

BlondeBomber

. . . Now why are you guys so loyal to oneworld? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

carbo

Why am I so loyal to OneWorld? Well, for starters, the people and services (with the possible exception of AA) have always been excellent on any 1W flight I have taken, and they've shown consistency on how to handle their customers. The flights I've had on star (inside and outside Canada) have been inconsistent and lacking a personal touch. Plus, considering what AC has done to Canadian, I feel like they are forcing me into one airline, and I like a choice. I hope enough people feel the same and another airline emerges in Canada to provide some competition. (come on Westjet and C3, upgrade your services and take out some seats!)
Let's hope 1W sees the need to hold on to loyal Cplus customers and gives us some kind of break on another airline.

ALW

I wonder if Westjet would see any value in giving FF points in other airlines' plans, much the way Alaska does. Alaska seems to offer points in 4 or 5 of the non-global-alliance airlines (all/most of oneworld, plus Continental, Northwest, KLM, TWA).

If Westjet moved east and offered AA points (or even TWA or Northwest), surely they make a bigger dent in AC's monopoly than if they don't offer any points at all -- even if they charged $10 or $15 more for the ticket, to cover the cost of 500pts. Granted AC is quite entrenched, but without a FF plan surely "EastJet" is doomed.

andrew

Celestar340

The only OneWorld airline partner that might equal CPlus in all aspects is, hate to say it, American Airlines AAdvantage.

I'm doing as many flights I can on my Cplus account, but when the time comes, I'm switching to AA. From my post at AA, Exec Plat members there doubt AA will comp my Exec Plat over to theirs but I might be able to do a Gold or Platinum challenge and then work my way to Exec Platinum.

Cathay Pacific's programme is impossible to reach if you've got zilch with them. Besides their AsiaMiles programme is quite pathetic when it comes to awards or even service (their Marco Polo programme and AsiaMiles have been privatised and is not run by Cathay Pacific). British Airways-Canada's prorgamme I am not too familiar with so I cannot comment.

Why stick with OneWorld? I find that the OneWorld programme works better than STAR. I also have STAR GOLD status on several STAR partners so I now I have to work on OneWorld.

RAT

Funny..... I've always been Treated very well with * and with 1w. As a matter of fact I've found that in general both AC/CP have the same High level of service. * and 1w both have good alliances outside North America.

I've Never liked any of the US Airlines especially AA and UA.

I for one will continue to fly any Canadian Airline (other than the Charters). WestJet is geared for the 'Lets go visit granny' Market therefore I'm not interested.

Just my opinion. :-)

Shareholder

I doubt WestJet is a suitable candidate for oneworld. As noted above, it has that niche market of non-flyers in mind and would only compromise itself -- as Wardair ultimately did -- by going after the buisness crowd and reconfiguring aircraft to accommodate a more picky clientelle. (True, it has pushed the Calgary-Edmonton shuttle at the business market and might extend this to Calgar/Edmonton-Vancouver, but these are short hauls. It might be a good connector for oneworld parters like CX, QF and AA out of Vancouver, an d a lesser extent for AA out of Calgary, but the high-yield business passenger would insist on a J-cabin if they are already booked in J or F on their international or transborder flight, otherwise they'd fly direct or non-strop on Cdn or AC.)

And Westjet does not have the res infrastructure, advance seat selection, interline agreements and airport staff to provide the basics oneworld would require of a partner carrier. It could adopt some of these, but the added costs would erode profitability, which comes by not having to support these costly functions. That's the whole secret to its success.

And inspite of what the press reports, anyone I know who's taken it has been very negative. Cancelled or delayed flights are the norm for my sample of a dozen people. Friendly crews don't make up for delayed plans.

Canadian3000 might provide a link for oneworld on certan domestic routes, but its major international routes compete with oneworld carriers BA and QF. And it has clearly staked out the south Pacific as a place where it can build new tourist package destination business over the coming years.

I suspect we will be orphaned for quite a while, and must rely on AA as the club of choice if we want to stay in oneworld system. AAdvantage's biggest drawback is lack of access to domestic (US) AA lounges even at Platinum or ExecPlatinum levels as part of the elite package, and an inability to have BA trans-Atlantic flights earn credit (not to mention discount CX flights) These two things might change though, with Cdn out of AA's trans-Pacific partnership and an increased reliance on CX, and an appeal to US/UK regulators who have limited aspects of the BA relationship because they feared dominance on the north Atlantic. With CP and AC being the dominant player out of Canada, AA and BA might make the case for changes in their consent decree to limit such things as reciprocal credit on trans-Atlantic flights. Or AA might let its Canadian members get credit on BA to enhance its attractiveness to us.

carbo

"Orphaned" is a good word to use.

I agree that Westjet is not an option for 1W, and C3 (now Canada's second largest airline-how depressing is that?) is dedicated to vacation charters. I suspect 1W is planning to wait and see what happens in Canada. Besides, with business travel in Canada being well under 10% of what it is in the states, 1W is not too concerned yet. They will be soon, however, because without CP they have no Asia/Pacific hub on the west coast of NA to connect business passengers to asia. Cathay and AA will lose a valuable link. Maybe they will look at JAL (and increase flights to YVR)?

For me, most of my travel will be international out of SFO (recently relocated), but for all my travel to/from/in Canada I will try to fly Alaskan/Westjet/AA until a real competitor for AC emerges. It may take a couple of years, but when it happens 1W will be back in Canada.

ALW

I may not have described that well. I didn't mean to suggest 1W membership for Westjet, just give the points. Alaska isn't in 1W but you can earn CP and AA points. But you can also earn NW, KLM, CO, or TWA points. I don't think they're Q-miles in most cases, but I thought if Westjet offered AA points for flying, they might attract some AA flyers who would have more use for 500 AA points than 500 or 250 AC points.

And they should be able to buy 500 AA points for a lot less than starting their own plan!

andrew

Shareholder

You can earn Q-miles on AA and NW programs when flying AS. But my original response stands based on WestJet's current orientation to the infrequent flyer, and cream skim business crowd between some western cities. But their skeds are still too unreliable and infrequent for FFs. Things might change when they realize central Canada offers a slightly different market for them.

I think the unique AS situation has come about since neither AA nor NW has an extensive north south network on the west coast, and AS benefits from the feed of both national carriers. They in turn can now compete with SW and UA on these routes. WestJet is not a feeder or connector to any other airline, and plies routes on which both AC and CP regionals fly.

FF miles on AA would not be an attraction for most fliers on WestJet since these folks don't fly enough to benefit from an FF account, nor would AA figure in their transborder plans, since they'd fly on the frequent charters to sun country destinations in the US.

KoreAm

Do you think there would be a possibility that there will be code-share routes on Westjet? Does anyone know how the service on Westjet? Thanks.

Shareholder

KORE AM. Did you not read my postings above. I thought your question had already been aswered, but...

One never says never in this world.

WestJet believes in simplicity and adding the infrastructure to handle FF programs, special res numbers, advance seat selection, interlining, etc. would only add costs and undermine their current operating philosophy of keeping it simple. I suspect they've also studied where Wardair got into trouble, and would not want to start down that road (Business class cabins, FF programs, etc.)

And while Horizon codeshares with many FF programs and carriers, it also has a full-frills policy. You get a free alcoholic drink drink (boutique wine or specialty microbrew) and snacks. Nothing fancy, but they do give you something on every flight. WestJet gives you nothing but a seat (unpre-assigned until you check in) and joke-cracking flight attendents.

They may find it necessary to upgrade this no frills policy to compete in central Canada. And they have begun promoting their YEG-YYC as an alternative business shuttle, but for the low end of the business market. To give out FF miles would cost them a few dollars, and so eat into the narrow bottom line. They can fill their jets now without resorting to such things, and likely don't want the hastle involved in being a feeder carrier to someone else. And while some oneworld carriers don't come up to the high standards of others, WestJet doesn't even meet their minimal requirements. (What about airport club lounges: even Horizon lets you use AS's four. WestJet has none and to set them up, even using the space vacated by the Empress Clubs in YEG, YVR, YWG and YYC would cost them more than they might be prepared to divert from shareholder dividends, or fleet re-equipping.

But as I noted, never say never...

AC*SE

What I have read in the press from WestJet seems to imply that they know what their market is, and they want to stay with their core competencies.

With the merger, maybe they see a market gap, but I would be suprised if they try to fill it. I think they see themselves as a the "Southwest" of Canada, and like it that way.

I think it is far more likely that C3 and AT will try to move into the scheduled market. But I think even they are unlikely to try an be a new CP. Why try and fight a monolithic enterprise at its own game? Better to carve out a distinct market, and corner it.