Fisch

I'm wondering about CP myself. I have:
19FEB CP967 YYZ-YYC Dep: 1440 A320
A few days ago when I checked itn, it showed this flight as J7 Y7 Q7 B7 H7 M7 N0 V7 K7 L7 . I then loaded the J class seat map and found 2 assigned seats of the 24 available.

Today a quick check again shows: J0 Y0 Q0 B0 H0 M0 N0 V0 K0 L0. I think to myself that perhaps this flight has been cancelled, and instead of listing as cancelled, they simply put all inventory to zero (much like AC did during the strike, and near strike). A call to CP and the agent informs me that the flight is still "fine". I then asked her if it was completely sold-out. She checks and responds "yes!".

Given that I am very much in hope of getting a sticker upgrade on this flight, I am somewhat concerned, as I don't think CP would likely sell or make bookings for 22 J class seats, as well as sellout a significant number of Y seats in about 48 hours. I think something is up, and I'm being kept in the dark http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

If CP actually has sold that many seats in such a short period, then I am very happy for them, but it just doesn't seem like a very realistic thing to happen.

[This message has been edited by Fisch (edited 02-02-2000).]

Andrew Yiu

It's highly likely that this flight will be cancelled. CP 967 arrives in YYC around 1700 and it's a turnaround service as CP 978 which leaves YYC around 1800.

You should go check CP 978's avaliability on the same day (i.e. CP 978 leaving YYC at 18:00 on Feb 13). If it shows all zeros, then you have your answer.

This is the same situation as CP 990 from YVR - YYZ. This flight is at least axed for the next 10 days but it's still showing in the system.

The only thing I am able to use to track cancellations is the CPlus interactive PC software using the Gates & Time function, it'll tell you "This flight may be cancelled, contact Canadian Airlines for more information."

Fisch

Thanks Empress! I did check itn, and sure enough, CP978 YYC-YYZ at 18:00 is J0 Y0 Q0 B0 H0 M0 N0 V0 K0 L0. I called CP again, and they insist that the flight is just full, and not to worry, that I will be in YYC by 16:51 as planned.

CP/AC/MILTON are going about this the wrong way. You don't cancel a flight, but make as though it's just sold out. You cancel the flight, and rebook people on either AC or the next CP flight, as per the passenger's wishes. Do they plan on letting me know when I get to the gate in Toronto on Feb 19th? What a joke!

I can't believe this, I really can't! I'm with you Empress, this whole situation is a real disgrace!

Shareholder

Fisch, see my other comment on Empress' original forum about this matter. This may be the same thing I faced when going to Vancouver a couple of weeks ago...

Fisch

Thanks Shareholder. That sure makes sense given what you, Empress and I have been seeing with respect to certain flights' advance bookings. I really can't believe they would go that far to adjust the schedules. I really wish they'd just change the schedule, and forget about playing games with the passengers.

IsleTraveller

Fisch, look on the bright side: if the flight is full, you stand a good chance of getting bumped, with the requisite coupon for free flights!

I will be doing significantly more flying this year (qualified for Gold last year based on both flights and mileage separately) and these actions concern me. I have some very tight deadlines at times, like getting to meetings on time. Do they expect to cancel a flight and not tell me in advance? What happens to my meeting. It's one thing to cancel a flight because of mechanical failure, but to wilfully cancel a flight and not inform travellers until they are at the gate in unconscionable. I think that Transport Canada may be getting a letter or two from me to inform them of the current actions of the national carrier.

By the way, how do you check for the different classes of tickets (J, B, Y, N etc) on ITN?

[This message has been edited by IsleTraveller (edited 02-03-2000).]

Fisch

IsleTraveller:

To change ITN such that you can see fare class availability, you must change the display preference of your profile from "beginner" to "expert". Simple as that, and enjoy!!!!

As for the flight cancelation methods of AC/CP, it really makes you wonder right from the start, how Milton can claim that the merger will be good for the customer. People buy a ticket to get to a city at a certain time. From my talking to the agents on the phone, I got the sense that they knew what was going on, and were instructed not to tell the customer anything. Sick!

Andrew Yiu

I never liked Milton & friends from the beginning in fact I hated the guy. All of us that travel a lot knows that no way a monopoly can be good for us.

This is what I guess they are doing... they zero out all the flight that they think mught have a chance of being cancelled and wait til it gets close to departure date, if it's not full, cancelled it...tough luck for us.

(BTW, Fisch...surprisely, your flight on 19 Feb is showing 7 in all classes again and J class is even all empty! at least as of right now Co-incident? I don't think so...) So you should check day to day to see what happen. Sooner or later, we'll see a trend and we won't be the only one to notice it and be unhappy about it. Wait til the media hears about what they are doing...

What they are doing is both stupid and unethical in a business sense. They think their customer are stupid and don't know what's going on..

They claim they will inform you before departure and rebook you on another flight, but just like IsleTraveller say, what if we got a deadline to meet and the choices of other flights is not even close to the one we booked on?

Why don't they just say
"booking for flight CP/AC XXX will start 48 hours before departure since we have decided to operate this flight and we are only selling full fare. If you are looking for discounted fare, the flight will become automatically full."

Someone must be behind all this...the SABRE system will not decide to do this automatically.

Regards,
Empress

Fisch

Empress: thanks for the new info on my CP967. I can't believe that the flight is now all 7s! I'm happy and all, but I can't understand how CP can be so clearly screwing with the flights, and not expect anyone to find out! I don't think they will be able to combine that CP flight with the AC that goes 15 minutes later, as that AC flight only has 8 seats left in Y!

Andrew Yiu

Well...Fisch. You just answered yourself why it became 7s again....cause AC is almost full.

BlondeBomber

Remember, the airlines hold seats that are not available to ITN. I looked on ITN on Wednesday to see if there were any Websaver fares on AC coming back from LGA to YYC. It showed a lot of 0s (not just in L class either). I phoned AC anyway and they said indeed that they were oversold LGA-YYZ so I could not even get a reward seat on that flight (Friday going or Monday coming).

I checked on ITN on Friday morning and lo and behold L seats had become available both days even tho upgrade seats were not available on AC141 from YYZ-YYC. I phoned AC and they confirmed seats suddenly available, no oversold etc etc. so I booked.

When I got to YYZ, they cleared my upgrade to YYC even though J showed 0 seats on ITN. I use ITN as a guide but, as you know, you have to phone the airline to get the "real" (sometimes it seems unreal) story.

Good luck on the shifting flights. It is not only CP customers that are affected. AC cancelled a 6 AM flight to YEG from YYC on me the other day. I was booked on the 7 AM but wanted to leave earlier, showed up and was informed that the flight was cancelled in the ever changing schedule re-alignment that was going on in January. Ticked me off since the Maple Leaf Lounge didn't even open until 6:30 and I was there at 5:40 am!