The inevitable truth
 

Greetings from London:
What I found out today still left me in shock. How ever, I have to start believing the inevitable truth that I will be flying long haul cattle class in 4 years. This is the first time in about 2 years that I am not able to get a confirmed upgrade before departure time. I called at exactly 72 hours prior, they told me no seats for upgrade, I checked travelocity and it shows 5 empty seats, they had 8 yesterday, I doubt that 3 business booking in one day. It is unbelievable, when I came from YYZ - LHR, the plane left with 8 empty seats, so I thought I would have no problem on my return. So I probably have to make myself start thinking about cattle class, longer flight time going back too, I should have know better and buy a J ticket. So, now I have to play the standby game, I want to find out now, do they only put you on standby list ‘exactly’ two hours prior to departure? When should I arrive at check-in? Is the standby list a first come first serve basis? I don’t anticipate any Platinum in front of me since if they are using Ultimate stickers, they would be upgraded at time of booking.
Couple question also came to my mind, want to know what all of you think, if the plane left with empty J seats instead of upgrading you if you are standby, should I be complaining, if so, to what degree? Also, what if they upgraded someone else instead of you at the gate even though you are higher on the list? And finally, any better way to get the upgrade instead of going through the standby thing. I am only a Gold member.

Regards,
Empress

DON'T LOSE HOPE!!!!

When I last flew back from BKK-HKG-YVR, the entire business class was sold out - i.e. NO upgrades. At BKK there were about 11 no-shows, so everyone who wanted to got upgraded as far as HKG. That still left HKG-YVR, but BKK told me I was first on the standby list.

On arriving in HKG, I find out that two higher fares have bumped me to #3, and 1.5 hours before flight time, there are only 5 unclaimed seats. I went what you are going through, but 30 minutes before flight time, I had my upgrade http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Suggestions:

1. Keep phoning CP, every few hours, if you can. You never know when their yield management will open up a seat. (Besides, they might get tired of your calls, and give in. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif )

2. Make sure you get on the standyby list at exactly 2 hours. (In Canada, they'd probably put you on earlier, but I don't think the BA staff at LHR would.) It is first come, first serve, but only with-in each grouping -- i.e. status, fare, etc. If two Golds, in the same fare class, showed up, the first to check in would get the seat.

3. You're a Gold member so you'll have lounge access. Check in at 3 or 2.5 hours, go to the lounge, and wait for the 2 hour mark. (You might want to try earlier in the lounge -- they might go for it.) Have them put you on the standby list. Hang out at the counter if you have to. Remember this is "guerilla" air travel. http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

4. Finally, the coup d' gras. CP has a policy of allowing same day standby on different flights, for no charge. If you are on a later flight, find out when the first LHR-Canada flight is, and if it is possible to connect from that flight to your intended destination. If it is, go to the airport 2 hours before that flight, and see if there is a) any standby space available, and b) any upgrade seats available. You may be able to travel on the different flight. HOWEVER, the BA staff at LHR may not be aware of CP's policy. Press the point if you have to. Phone the Gold line if you have to. But make sure that the BA staff understand that this is allowed. Do all this in advance, if you can. You might want to skip your scheduled flight for a later flight, but this option is fraught with risks. There may not be any space at all on those flights, so you may end up stranded. Clearly, it's better to try for an earlier flight, if you can. If you choose this option, you may spend a fair amount of time at the airport, and still not get upgraded. But you'll at least have access to BA's lounges (or CX's, or AA'x, or...)

On to the other questions: the 3 seats that disappeared may have gone to Platinum members who can bypass the upgrade capacity controls/yield management. (This also means it is unlikely that there will be any Platinums in the standby list.)

But it is possible that they were sold. CP has been selling out their entire business class cabin regulary on popular routes (YVR-YYZ, and LHR-Canada, being 2 examples. I wanted to fly YVR-YYZ-YQB on Monday, but on my chosen flight, every single business class seat was sold, for real money. My second choice only had 3 empty seats, before any upgrades. Excellent news for CP, not so good for pax looking for upgrades. :| )

As far as leaving with empty J seats, when there are people requesting upgrades: Not a chance in hell! Believe it or not, CP wants to fill their J cabins. Preferably with paying J tickets, but if not then with elite members. I've been told by an FA on LHR-YYZ that if they do have empty seats, they'll go through the manifest and invite certain Y class passengers up.

As far as someone jumping the queue -- BA is quite fastidious about following the rules, so I think this highly unlikely. Check out the BA forum for a lot of threads that revolve around this very point. I wouldn't worry about this.

Finally, about better ways to upgrade -- I only know of 3: Get Platinum, pay J, or bribe the agent! http://talk.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif (See Rudi for details.)

Good luck,

Ken Hamer
P.S. I infer from your post that the flight is between 36 and 48 hours away. 5 seats at that point is still pretty good odds. Keep the faith! Bear in mind that there will almost certainly be at least a few no-shows. I think BA closes the flights at 40 or 45 minutes, so that is when you'll know for sure.

Let us know how it goes.


[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 06-11-1999).]

There are now 6 seats out of 25 seats. Good enough?

Well, better, anyway. As I said, seats do get released, so it does pay to check regularly. If you haven't already done so, call CP again, and request the upgrade.

You're getting closer to flight time (less likely the seats will be sold) and there is an increasing number of seats available. I'd say your chances are improving significantly.

Regards,

Ken Hamer
P.S. When exactly is your flight?

Just an update to the situation. Something came up in my schedule and had to make a quick run to Paris, while we at this, any chance to upgrade using any methods if I am CP gold even it is a BA aircraft, so I had to push my return dates back a couple days. Managed to change the dates on my ticket even though it is a highly discounted ticket, won’t let me change the flight number though (the 2145 out of LHR). So, that means I have to call in to upgrade again, which doesn’t look very bright as well L, 6 seats left on that one the last time I checked, about another 48 hrs til I can call. I tried to convince the agent to do the upgrade for me when I changed it but she said that the CP system is very strict, exactly 72 hours. I guess I better call long distance back to Canada for my upgrade if there is seats. Is there anyway to call the toll free numbers in Canada from here London. Talk about it, I actually checked the upgrade history for this flight number and it was okay.(Using easy sabre and search for R class, this is a very valuable tool which apparently will be gone soon) Can also use Easysabre to check for award seats availability (you know U class for J class award seats and I think it is T for economy, it will be dumb to use points to travel in Economy and E for free compensation or whatever kind of free ticket). Don’t think that airtm will do that. So what exactly is the percentage of seats they hold back? Is it about 20 percent (which makes it 5 seats).
Ken: Actually, it was true, they left 8 J seats empty on the 0815 out of YYZ to LHR last Sat
when I came. I managed to get 2 seats to myself. In fact, the gate agent told me I was the only Gold in the J cabin, rest is J ticket or Plat.
I am sure I’ve seen a couple of Gold member back in Economy from the luggage tags. I guess it depends on the Customer Service Director on that flight. Plus on that flight, it was a rookie working J cabin. She said she was going to watch the landing, but captain locked the door!! Actually 3 meals on that flight (Breakfast, Snack, Snack) Didn’t know they too had fresh baked cookies on board , I thought it was only MidWest express.
I want to know if I requested standby in the lounge, do I stay there or do I go to the gate?
So, you mean there are no CP agents working even though it is a CP aircraft, so I have to deal with BA agents? What if someone requested the upgrade on the standby list and had no black stickers, do they skip them, and if they give him the upgrade, it won’t be fair to me then. Good thing CP sent me a couple of duplicate membership package which means I had a couple of these ultimate stickers.
Also I want to know that I’ll be flying YYZ-YVR next week, what Ken told me apparently scare me, should I purchase a J ticket then, but my company wouldn’t be too happy about that, if I don’t mind paying the $100 change fee changing to a flight with upgrade seats, should I do that then, don’t know do I have to, but just want to be prepared. Flying a lot of YYZ-YVR-YYZ this coming months, any preference for particular flight number in both ways which is easy to upgrade? For the last couple times, I tried to take the one after the 747 cause everyone will try to get on that one which makes the next one quite empty. Also is
YVR-LAX-YVR, I noticed it is only a 737, I got upgrade on YVR-SFO last time at check-in even though they had 7 seats out of 12 when I called for an upgrade, they wouldn’t do it over the phone, but I wasn’t too worry about that back then because it was only a 1hr50m flight. However, YVR-LAX is 3hrs. BTW, I flew on Alaska on the last week of May and still haven’t got my points!! Almost 3 weeks, should I call CP, but my connecting portion had been credited. BTW Ken, the service on that one’s F was pretty good, seats pitch were a but tight though. Good thing when I am travelling between YYZ-HKG-YYZ next time, I’ll be using my points!

Regards,
Empress

Just checked again, it's up to 7 now.

Perhaps a foolish question, but does CP calculate their 72 hours as 72 before the flight? AC calculates it as three days before the day of the flight, e.g. 12:01am on Wednesday for any (I think; I always fly early AM) Saturday flight, and I hesitate to describe how I've managed to stretch _that_ out on the west coast!

Thanks!
andrew

CP uses the SABRE computer reservations system. So I would think it would be exactly 72 hours to the time of the flight departing.

I think KenHamer has indicated it is exactly 72 hr and not a second more with Canadian. AC has been (when I was Elite) definitely looser being anytime on the 2nd (now 3rd) day before.

Last summer when flying to LHR from YYZ on Canadi>n, they let me upgrade with black SWA stickers at 6am three days before departure, even though the flight was not until 9pm. The agent also booked my return upgrade for me, with confirmed seat assignment, and that flight was not until 18 days later. I suspect there are ways around Sabre if you know what you are doing!