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-   -   Transiting thru USA as a dual citizen....... (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/canada/737586-transiting-thru-usa-dual-citizen.html)

Caroline's Rub Sep 20, 2007 11:05 am


Originally Posted by zorn (Post 8428002)
Nonsense. Mrs. Zorn was born in Ottawa and has three passports.

Agreed. Born in Calgary and hold two passports...

Not the same as travelling to Brazil, UK, etc., but I tend to use my US passport when I enter the US, and my CDN when I come home. I find I tend to get less hassle that way.


Originally Posted by B1 (Post 8434853)
Besides the problem of having to hold two passports, holders of US passports have to file US income tax forms every year regardless of where they live and where they earn their money. Since the US has estate taxes and Canada does not, the estates of US citizens who lived in Canada and were also Canadian citizens will be subject to those taxes. If a US citizen renounces that citizenship the IRS will still claim the taxes as being owed on the grounds that the renunciation was to avoid taxes. Some benefit.

They only pursue it if you choose to come back and establish residency in the US again. As long as you stay in Canada you don't get hassled. I just went through this with my fathers estate. Or, maybe I was just lucky - who knows. The tax men on both sides of the border change the rules more often than they change underwear.

YVR Cockroach Sep 20, 2007 11:09 am


Originally Posted by Shareholder (Post 8427885)
Just registering displeasure at these practices on behalf of all of us Canadians who were born here and thus relegated to second class citizenship because we can only hold one passport...

Canada doesn't forbid you to hold citizenship of other countries (used to but not in many decades). Your particular problem is having immigrant ancestors who don't have citizenships that can be passed on, and/or ancestors who neglected to register/affirm you and/or their descendants for other citizenships.

ylwae Sep 20, 2007 11:12 am


Originally Posted by B1 (Post 8434853)
Some benefit.

No kidding. Major pain in the a$$.

tjl Sep 20, 2007 12:35 pm


Originally Posted by Shareholder (Post 8427885)
Just registering displeasure at these practices on behalf of all of us Canadians who were born here and thus relegated to second class citizenship because we can only hold one passport...

Additional citizenships are not beneficial in all cases. A second citizenship could come with an obligation for mandatory military service or taxes, for example. Citizenship in a country whose government treats non-citizens better than citizens may also not be too valuable when in that country.

daniellam Sep 20, 2007 3:23 pm


Originally Posted by tjl (Post 8435337)
Additional citizenships are not beneficial in all cases. A second citizenship could come with an obligation for mandatory military service or taxes, for example. Citizenship in a country whose government treats non-citizens better than citizens may also not be too valuable when in that country.

I am glad that Article 5 of the Chinese Nationality law states "Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth [note: automatic in Canada and other "jus soli" countries] shall not have Chinese nationality."

(That is why a lot of Chinese Canadians born in Canada don't have Chinese citizenship.)

It is better to be treated as a non-citizen in China in most cases.

IMHO, having a second citizenship can be dangerous is some cases. Take Maher Arar for example, even though he was a Canadian Citzen (origianally from Syria and had Syrian Citizenship), he was deported by the U.S. to Syria to face torture. If Canada did not not recognize dual citizenship, then Mr. Arar would had to give up his Syrian citizenship before obtaining his Canadian citizenship, and he would be solely a Canadian citizen and nothing else.

It is Canada's allowing of dual citizenship that is causing people from oppressive countries a lot of problems.

dodo Sep 20, 2007 3:35 pm


Originally Posted by daniellam (Post 8436324)

IMHO, having a second citizenship can be dangerous is some cases. Take Maher Arar for example, even though he was a Canadian Citzen (origianally from Syria and had Syrian Citizenship), he was deported by the U.S. to Syria to face torture. If Canada did not not recognize dual citizenship, then Mr. Arar would had to give up his Syrian citizenship before obtaining his Canadian citizenship, and he would be solely a Canadian citizen and nothing else.

It is Canada's allowing of dual citizenship that is causing people from oppressive countries a lot of problems.

Even though Maher Arar would have given up his birth citizenship, the Americans would still "scrutinize" him because his country of birth would be on his Canadian Passport and his name was already on file thanks to the same Canadian agencies. Initially, Syria was not the first choice but the "collaborating countries" that do these sort of dirty tortures played him like a foot-ball:rolleyes:

antirealist Sep 20, 2007 5:16 pm


Originally Posted by daniellam (Post 8436324)
IMHO, having a second citizenship can be dangerous is some cases. Take Maher Arar for example... If Canada did not not recognize dual citizenship, then Mr. Arar would had to give up his Syrian citizenship before obtaining his Canadian citizenship, and he would be solely a Canadian citizen and nothing else.

It is Canada's allowing of dual citizenship that is causing people from oppressive countries a lot of problems.

A lot of oppressive countries - Syria included - don't allow citizens to renounce their citizenship. That's one argument for allowing dual citizenship in Canada.

daniellam Sep 20, 2007 6:04 pm


Originally Posted by antirealist (Post 8436954)
A lot of oppressive countries - Syria included - don't allow citizens to renounce their citizenship. That's one argument for allowing dual citizenship in Canada.

What if that person were to try to obtain citizenship in say Singapore, or the Netherlands where you have to get a document saying that you renounced your previous citizenships before getting naturalized?

emcampbe Sep 20, 2007 11:03 pm

I'm a dual US/Canadian citizen, with 2 passports. I debated for a while the merits of which one to use where. I still do.

I never ever travel with 2 passports at the same time. When going to a foreign country the requires a visa, I'm always worried about the previously mentioned stamp issue. But the main reason is, that if for some reason you get searched, and have an agent having a crappy day that wants to assume one of them is a fake, etc. it is a problem you don't want to have to deal with. Especially in the world we live in today. So I just say...pick one and use it.

On the other hand, I'm enrolled in Nexus now, and since most of my travel is between the US/Canada, I don't theoretically need to travel with either passport.

GUWonder Sep 22, 2007 7:15 am


Originally Posted by B1 (Post 8434853)
Besides the problem of having to hold two passports, holders of US passports have to file US income tax forms every year regardless of where they live and where they earn their money. Since the US has estate taxes and Canada does not, the estates of US citizens who lived in Canada and were also Canadian citizens will be subject to those taxes. If a US citizen renounces that citizenship the IRS will still claim the taxes as being owed on the grounds that the renunciation was to avoid taxes. Some benefit.

US citizens do have to file if the income rises to the level where required to file. There are US citizens abroad whose income is below the required level to file. IIRC, someone working abroad and making $5k-6k is not required to file taxes in the US unless that income is not ordinary income or is the product of business activity. (The trigger is something greater than $7k but is less than $9k for an individual who may otherwise file as single or married but filing separately.)

jpyvr Sep 23, 2007 10:19 am

Speaking of dual citizens USA/Canada, I remember reading somewhere that the US requires such people to enter the US with their American documentation, not Canadian. Can anyone confirm if that is true? I've always done so because of having read this rule, but might choose not to if it's not the case. My Brazilian visa is in my Canadian passport, and so I've had to take both passports on recent trips to Brazil.

ylwae Sep 23, 2007 10:37 am


Originally Posted by jpyvr (Post 8449087)
Speaking of dual citizens USA/Canada, I remember reading somewhere that the US requires such people to enter the US with their American documentation, not Canadian. Can anyone confirm if that is true?

This is apparently the new rule. I was given a friendly lecture at SEA by an immigration officer even before the rule came into effect. The US consulate in Vancouver later told me I wouldn't necessarily be refused entry if I didn't present a US passport (it would depend on the whim of the immigration officer), but I would most likely be subject to an extensive verification procedure.

fly-yul Sep 23, 2007 12:30 pm


Originally Posted by daniellam (Post 8436324)
I am glad that Article 5 of the Chinese Nationality law states "Any person born abroad whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality. But a person whose parents are both Chinese nationals and have both settled abroad, or one of whose parents is a Chinese national and has settled abroad, and who has acquired foreign nationality at birth [note: automatic in Canada and other "jus soli" countries] shall not have Chinese nationality."

(That is why a lot of Chinese Canadians born in Canada don't have Chinese citizenship.)

It is better to be treated as a non-citizen in China in most cases.

IMHO, having a second citizenship can be dangerous is some cases. Take Maher Arar for example, even though he was a Canadian Citzen (origianally from Syria and had Syrian Citizenship), he was deported by the U.S. to Syria to face torture. If Canada did not not recognize dual citizenship, then Mr. Arar would had to give up his Syrian citizenship before obtaining his Canadian citizenship, and he would be solely a Canadian citizen and nothing else.

It is Canada's allowing of dual citizenship that is causing people from oppressive countries a lot of problems.


According to foreign affairs:
A bilateral treaty between Canada and China establishes that China will recognize the Canadian citizenship of persons with Chinese ancestry if they enter China using a Canadian passport.

wrightbrother Sep 23, 2007 12:50 pm


Originally Posted by ylwae (Post 8434905)
No kidding. Major pain in the a$$.

But I do wonder how many Am-Can dualies living in Canada actually file US taxes... I would guess the vast majority fall below the radar, illegal though it may be. For most it's just irrelevant, as there would not be any tax owing.

Same for military registration, which is probably more serious!

If the cdn dollar gets too strong, americans in canada could find themselves in the US top bracket. Higher taxes in the US -- imagine that!

Krakajax Sep 23, 2007 1:53 pm


Originally Posted by Carioca Canuck (Post 8426338)
I did a search and did not come up with anything remotely close to my question so here goes.........

1-Enter the US as a Canadian, even thought we are transiting only, thereby avoiding the hassle of fingerprinting and perhaps extraneous questioning that Brasilians undergo (even though she has never been hassled at all by the US Homeland security people....just fingerprinted as all Brasilians are).




Unless she exhibits some unusual behavior that would
be cause for extra scrunity no one generally will wonder about
lack of visa stamps in her Canadian passport.

At any rate, she should use her Canadian passport as this is her
legal home of record. She can use her Brazil passport as evidence
of her birthright there.

Have an safe and enjoyable visit south.







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