Competition for YVR and YXX: Bellingham's back
Feb 11, 2007, 5:52 pm
#46
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CBR
Programs: Virgin Australia, United, Delta, Qantas, Air Canada
Posts: 148
I think that I will likely end up being a person who does a variant of what you are describing. I've been looking at flights from the Detroit/Windsor area to Vancouver and I've seen that it is generally cheaper for me to fly to SEA or BLI from Detroit than it is for flights through Canada to Vancouver. If I did want to take the Canada only option, I would have to drive farther to the airport and pay more money for the flights.
Feb 11, 2007, 6:12 pm
#47
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Programs: Aeroplan SE AND 1MM, HHonors Gold, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum , L'Accor Platinum
Posts: 9,580
I am confused. I thought the minimum duty free goods that can be imported, was CAN$50, if one stayed 24 hours in USA? I thought that any lesser stay would potentially make you liable to pay duty, for any cost of goods one bought into Canada, no matter how limited the costs were of those goods?
Feb 11, 2007, 10:09 pm
#49
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,043
I am confused. I thought the minimum duty free goods that can be imported, was CAN$50, if one stayed 24 hours in USA? I thought that any lesser stay would potentially make you liable to pay duty, for any cost of goods one bought into Canada, no matter how limited the costs were of those goods?
Needless to say, it's an offence if you do not declare.
Feb 11, 2007, 10:38 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: YHM
Programs: AC, US
Posts: 224
Are you sure about that? I thought Canadians were free to import whatever legal goods they wanted to, as long as they declared them and paid duty/tax on them.
Feb 11, 2007, 11:27 pm
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,043
Personal exemptions
When you return to Canada, you may qualify for a personal exemption. This personal exemption allows you to bring goods of a certain value into the country without paying the regular duties except for a minimum duty that may apply to some tobacco products.
The term duties can include excise taxes, and GST/HST. It does not include provincial or territorial sales tax. However, the CBSA has working agreements with some provinces and territories that allow us to collect provincial and territorial taxes, levies, and fees on goods that have a value higher than your personal exemption.
If you reside in one of the provinces or territories that has a working agreement with the CBSA and you return to Canada at a port of entry in your province or territory of residence, the goods that you import in excess of your personal exemption will be subject to the provincial/territorial assessment. If you bring in more than the free allowance of alcohol, you will have to pay the provincial or territorial assessment for the province/territory where you enter Canada, even if it is not your province/territory of residence.
The federal government has agreements with New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland and Labrador to collect HST at a rate of 14%. If you live in a participating province or territory and the value of the non-commercial goods you import is more than your personal exemption, you have to pay HST instead of GST, regardless of where you enter Canada.
Except for restricted items, you can bring back any amount of goods as long as you are willing to pay the duties and any provincial or territorial assessments that apply. This rule applies even if you do not qualify for a personal exemption.
You must always report the amount you are claiming for your personal exemption in Canadian dollars. You must therefore convert foreign currency values and any foreign sales taxes you paid to Canadian dollars at the appropriate rate of exchange.
What are your personal exemptions?
After each absence of 24 hours or more
You can claim up to CAN$50 worth of goods without paying any duties. This is your personal exemption. You must have the goods with you when you arrive and you cannot include tobacco products or alcoholic beverages in this exemption. If the goods you bring in are worth more than CAN$50 in total, you cannot claim this exemption. Instead you have to pay full duties on all goods you bring in.
After each absence of 48 hours or more
You can claim up to CAN$200 worth of goods without paying any duties. Although you can include some tobacco products and alcoholic beverages, only a partial exemption will apply to cigarettes, tobacco products, or manufactured tobacco. See the section "Alcohol and tobacco" for more details. Also, you must have the goods with you when you arrive.
After each absence of 7 days or more
You can claim up to CAN$750 worth of goods without paying any duties. Although you can include some tobacco products and alcoholic beverages, only a partial exemption will apply to cigarettes, tobacco products, or manufactured tobacco. See the section "Alcohol and tobacco" for more details. With the exception of tobacco products and alcoholic beverages, you do not need to have the goods with you when you arrive.
To calculate the number of days you have been absent, do not include the date you leave Canada, but include the date you return. Dates matter, not times. For example, we consider you to have been absent seven days if you left Friday the 7th and returned Friday the 14th.
Who is eligible for these exemptions?
You are eligible for a personal exemption if you are a:
Canadian resident returning from a trip outside Canada;
former resident of Canada returning to live in this country; or
temporary resident of Canada returning from a trip outside Canada.
Even young children and infants are entitled to a personal exemption. As a parent or guardian, you can make a declaration to the CBSA for a child, as long as the goods you are declaring are for the child's use.
http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4044/rc4044-e.html
When you return to Canada, you may qualify for a personal exemption. This personal exemption allows you to bring goods of a certain value into the country without paying the regular duties except for a minimum duty that may apply to some tobacco products.
The term duties can include excise taxes, and GST/HST. It does not include provincial or territorial sales tax. However, the CBSA has working agreements with some provinces and territories that allow us to collect provincial and territorial taxes, levies, and fees on goods that have a value higher than your personal exemption.
If you reside in one of the provinces or territories that has a working agreement with the CBSA and you return to Canada at a port of entry in your province or territory of residence, the goods that you import in excess of your personal exemption will be subject to the provincial/territorial assessment. If you bring in more than the free allowance of alcohol, you will have to pay the provincial or territorial assessment for the province/territory where you enter Canada, even if it is not your province/territory of residence.
The federal government has agreements with New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland and Labrador to collect HST at a rate of 14%. If you live in a participating province or territory and the value of the non-commercial goods you import is more than your personal exemption, you have to pay HST instead of GST, regardless of where you enter Canada.
Except for restricted items, you can bring back any amount of goods as long as you are willing to pay the duties and any provincial or territorial assessments that apply. This rule applies even if you do not qualify for a personal exemption.
You must always report the amount you are claiming for your personal exemption in Canadian dollars. You must therefore convert foreign currency values and any foreign sales taxes you paid to Canadian dollars at the appropriate rate of exchange.
What are your personal exemptions?
After each absence of 24 hours or more
You can claim up to CAN$50 worth of goods without paying any duties. This is your personal exemption. You must have the goods with you when you arrive and you cannot include tobacco products or alcoholic beverages in this exemption. If the goods you bring in are worth more than CAN$50 in total, you cannot claim this exemption. Instead you have to pay full duties on all goods you bring in.
After each absence of 48 hours or more
You can claim up to CAN$200 worth of goods without paying any duties. Although you can include some tobacco products and alcoholic beverages, only a partial exemption will apply to cigarettes, tobacco products, or manufactured tobacco. See the section "Alcohol and tobacco" for more details. Also, you must have the goods with you when you arrive.
After each absence of 7 days or more
You can claim up to CAN$750 worth of goods without paying any duties. Although you can include some tobacco products and alcoholic beverages, only a partial exemption will apply to cigarettes, tobacco products, or manufactured tobacco. See the section "Alcohol and tobacco" for more details. With the exception of tobacco products and alcoholic beverages, you do not need to have the goods with you when you arrive.
To calculate the number of days you have been absent, do not include the date you leave Canada, but include the date you return. Dates matter, not times. For example, we consider you to have been absent seven days if you left Friday the 7th and returned Friday the 14th.
Who is eligible for these exemptions?
You are eligible for a personal exemption if you are a:
Canadian resident returning from a trip outside Canada;
former resident of Canada returning to live in this country; or
temporary resident of Canada returning from a trip outside Canada.
Even young children and infants are entitled to a personal exemption. As a parent or guardian, you can make a declaration to the CBSA for a child, as long as the goods you are declaring are for the child's use.
http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4044/rc4044-e.html
Feb 12, 2007, 12:37 am
#52
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: YHM
Programs: AC, US
Posts: 224
Seems to me this is what I'm getting at. For trips outside of Canada that are less than 24 hours in duration, Canadians are not eligible for any exemption. However, CBSA cannot confiscate the goods as long as (1) The goods are properly declared and (2) tax/duty is paid for the goods.
Feb 12, 2007, 4:00 pm
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Chilling with penguins
Posts: 13,043
That's what I thought until I was told otherwise.
They generally don't take the goods away from you, but they technically can, even if you're willing to pay duty.
Maybe this was more specifically for alcohol though.
They generally don't take the goods away from you, but they technically can, even if you're willing to pay duty.
Maybe this was more specifically for alcohol though.
Feb 13, 2007, 11:07 am
#55
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 8,564
That's what I thought until I was told otherwise.
They generally don't take the goods away from you, but they technically can, even if you're willing to pay duty.
Maybe this was more specifically for alcohol though.
They generally don't take the goods away from you, but they technically can, even if you're willing to pay duty.
Maybe this was more specifically for alcohol though.
Even alcohol, I know there's a huge upper limit where you need a permit even if you're willing to pay duty and taxes, but it's not on the order of a few bottles.
Possibly groceries, they're tax free (not even GST!) but you're limited to (e.g.) 3 dozen eggs per person, and specific amounts on other things like chicken, turkey, milk, cheese, etc. Those are agriculatural limits not duty/tax limits.
I'd really like to know the source of the information quoted.
=aw
Feb 13, 2007, 12:14 pm
#56
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,511
If you properly declare, pay the duty and taxes, you can import any quantity of any lawfull product into Canada for personal use EXCEPT those with specific import restrictions, which unsurprisingly are complex and many.
Without digging too deeply, there may be import restrictions on:
- certain clothing, textiles and handbags
- food products, plants and animals (for safety and endangered species reasons)
- food products (for economic reasons) (there are limits on eggs, dairy, butter substitutes, edible meats)
- cultural property
The official rule is:
"Except for restricted items, you can bring back any amount of goods as long as you are willing to pay the duties and any provincial or territorial assessments that apply. This rule applies even if you do not qualify for a personal exemption."
The complexity is that there are more restrictions than people commonly assume, particularly on food.
Mar 28, 2007, 11:08 am
#58
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central California and on the Road
Posts: 297
Allegiant adding BLI-RNO
Given some of the guesses about possible future BLI routes I thought I'd just do a followup to this thread.
Allegiant will start BLI-RNO flights on May 25.
The flights will operate Mon/Wed/Fri.
Allegiant will start BLI-RNO flights on May 25.
The flights will operate Mon/Wed/Fri.
Mar 28, 2007, 4:19 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: FB Silver going for Gold
Posts: 21,799
What you're forgetting is that BLI is one of the fastest MSAs (Metropolitan Statistical Areas) in the U.S. and is projected to have just under 200,000 by next year. And then there's Mt. Vernon/Burlington and Marysville further sout. While Bellis Fair did suffer when the CAD exchange rate was bad, local population growth apparently offsetted it and Canadian business isn't vital anymore.
What may stunt BLI's growth and attractiveness to Canadians is that AS often charges a fortune for that BLI-SEA leg (and I can't see DL being cheap for BLI-SLC). I've seen AS's lowest published fares (after taxes and transborder fees) for BLI-originating flights costing more than for ex-YVR departures for the same, if you can even get the ex-BLI cheap seats. Using the smaller DH8s for BLI-SEA may be part of the problem.
BLI can offer cheap last minute fares to the U.S. My partner had to fly to RST and MSP last summer on a week or so notice. Fare on NW (only practial carrier to both destinations) from YVR was US$1,600. Fare from BLI was US$600 so that offset the 200km driving allowances she charged to her company. Difference appeared to be cost of the YVR-SEA vs. BLI-SEA flights as the NW flights were the same. We also flew SEA-BOS-SEA and SEA-MSP-SEA this year which, even with parking charges and the 540km r/t to SEA, was cheaper than the ex-YVR fare per person. With Nexus BLI is 80 km and less than 1 hr. away, and check-in to boarding process is so much easier (no lounge but kerbside to departure lounge is no more than 10-15 minutes, and maybe 5 minutes or even less if you've preprinted your BP).
I'm one of those who has long used SEA regularly for U.S. (and some international) flights. Savings for 2 persons generally outweigh the cost of transportation, parking and overnighting in SEA. Transcontinental from SEA to Florida, BOS and other points can still be bought for USD 220-250 r/t inc. taxes ex-SEA, and provide full miles, elite upgrades (and not to mention I get to use the NW lounge in SEA). Parking in SEA has gone up a lot though. Used to get parking for as little as $1-2/day + taxes 6-7 years ago. Cheapest I've found currently is $8.25+. There's the advantage of visiting Fry's Computer in Renton (off exit 5 on I-405).
Going to BLI is also nice for getting cheap gas and groceries. USD 2.85/gallon last week (CAD 0.87/l) at Fred Meyer (not the cheapest) last week vs. CAD 1.13/l in GVRD currently. Love bottom feeding on the loss leaders at Fred Meyer, Safeway, Albertsons and Walgreens. Waiting for this outfit to open the local branch this summer. I've also been buying CFLs (compact fluorescent light) bulbs for an absurdly low 60 cents each thanks to some utility subsidy.
For the liquor I buy, it's C$19/l at the southbound duty-free shop at Peace Arch. Cost in B.C. is close to C$50 for a 700ml bottle.
Canada customs per person limits on eggs are 2 dozen, dairy products CAD 20, 20 lb of turkey (or all poultry).
What may stunt BLI's growth and attractiveness to Canadians is that AS often charges a fortune for that BLI-SEA leg (and I can't see DL being cheap for BLI-SLC). I've seen AS's lowest published fares (after taxes and transborder fees) for BLI-originating flights costing more than for ex-YVR departures for the same, if you can even get the ex-BLI cheap seats. Using the smaller DH8s for BLI-SEA may be part of the problem.
BLI can offer cheap last minute fares to the U.S. My partner had to fly to RST and MSP last summer on a week or so notice. Fare on NW (only practial carrier to both destinations) from YVR was US$1,600. Fare from BLI was US$600 so that offset the 200km driving allowances she charged to her company. Difference appeared to be cost of the YVR-SEA vs. BLI-SEA flights as the NW flights were the same. We also flew SEA-BOS-SEA and SEA-MSP-SEA this year which, even with parking charges and the 540km r/t to SEA, was cheaper than the ex-YVR fare per person. With Nexus BLI is 80 km and less than 1 hr. away, and check-in to boarding process is so much easier (no lounge but kerbside to departure lounge is no more than 10-15 minutes, and maybe 5 minutes or even less if you've preprinted your BP).
I'm one of those who has long used SEA regularly for U.S. (and some international) flights. Savings for 2 persons generally outweigh the cost of transportation, parking and overnighting in SEA. Transcontinental from SEA to Florida, BOS and other points can still be bought for USD 220-250 r/t inc. taxes ex-SEA, and provide full miles, elite upgrades (and not to mention I get to use the NW lounge in SEA). Parking in SEA has gone up a lot though. Used to get parking for as little as $1-2/day + taxes 6-7 years ago. Cheapest I've found currently is $8.25+. There's the advantage of visiting Fry's Computer in Renton (off exit 5 on I-405).
Going to BLI is also nice for getting cheap gas and groceries. USD 2.85/gallon last week (CAD 0.87/l) at Fred Meyer (not the cheapest) last week vs. CAD 1.13/l in GVRD currently. Love bottom feeding on the loss leaders at Fred Meyer, Safeway, Albertsons and Walgreens. Waiting for this outfit to open the local branch this summer. I've also been buying CFLs (compact fluorescent light) bulbs for an absurdly low 60 cents each thanks to some utility subsidy.
For the liquor I buy, it's C$19/l at the southbound duty-free shop at Peace Arch. Cost in B.C. is close to C$50 for a 700ml bottle.Canada customs per person limits on eggs are 2 dozen, dairy products CAD 20, 20 lb of turkey (or all poultry).
Mar 28, 2007, 4:24 pm
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 1999
Programs: FB Silver going for Gold
Posts: 21,799
I am sure. About 15-20 years ago, TG had a 3x weekly SEA-YYZ 5th freedom flight (the A310/300 flew alternatingly to YYZ and NYC connecting to a TG flight in SEA). Seems that flight was very popular with those in YVR wanting to fly to YYZ as it was much cheaper than YVR-YYZ fares even when we had at least 2 major carriers in Canada. Since that time, we've now got hideous trans-border fares which makes it less attractive, not to mention no free parking around SEA.