Air France flight crashed in YYZ
Aug 5, 2005, 4:59 pm
#286
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: oakville Ontario canada;AC*SE
Posts: 16,985
Originally Posted by InTheAirGuy
Flew over the wreck today -- out my window on the left as we came in on a south to north approach -- and it is strikingly massive. When you are about 100 feet above and to the right of the thing, the sheer size, scope, and position in the ravine surely puts it into perspective.
Didn't have my digital, but lots of opportunity for others to get pics.
Didn't have my digital, but lots of opportunity for others to get pics.
Aug 5, 2005, 8:16 pm
#287
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 5,210
Originally Posted by After Burner
Consider this:
In about 5,000 feet of runway (assuming he landed really long) the aircraft was only able to decelerate by 65 mph (from 160 mph to 95 mph - the reported landing speed and speed at which he ran off the runway).
Yet, in only 200 yards he decelerated by 95 mph. There's nothing like a ravine to bring a vehicle to a quick halt.
Now what do suppose might have happened if the ravine wasn't there - just some flat grass with the 401 on the other side of a fence?
In about 5,000 feet of runway (assuming he landed really long) the aircraft was only able to decelerate by 65 mph (from 160 mph to 95 mph - the reported landing speed and speed at which he ran off the runway).
Yet, in only 200 yards he decelerated by 95 mph. There's nothing like a ravine to bring a vehicle to a quick halt.
Now what do suppose might have happened if the ravine wasn't there - just some flat grass with the 401 on the other side of a fence?
I'm sure the pilots on here can comment on how successful they think trying to reconfigure the aircraft for lift-off in 4000 feet or less in a thunderstorm with a tailwind would be. Also, is it possible that in the final few seconds in the air, they realized they have a tailwind pushing them down the runway, but the best course of action was to land and try to take off again. In other words, could they have safely aborted landing at that stage without pancaking on the runway anyway, given the reported winds?
Aug 6, 2005, 12:32 am
#288
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Location: YEG
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Ottawa pushes for extra room beyond runways
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../BNStory/Front
Transport Canada will soon require all airports to build “safety areas” at the ends of runways to help save lives during overruns, like the one that wrecked an Air France jet Tuesday at Toronto's Pearson International Airport.
Transport Canada will soon require all airports to build “safety areas” at the ends of runways to help save lives during overruns, like the one that wrecked an Air France jet Tuesday at Toronto's Pearson International Airport.
Aug 6, 2005, 5:57 am
#289
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Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 20,550
Skid marks on runway raise puzzling questions.
Aug 6, 2005, 9:27 am
#290
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Location: Southern Alberta
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Aug 6, 2005, 9:35 am
#292
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,000
I would like to see AF, Transport and a few others sue some of the passengers on the flight. There were way to many pax taking pictures and taking personal belongings with themselvses. When an a/c slides off the runway and catches fire you get the fk out of the thing.
Aug 6, 2005, 9:43 am
#293
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Location: YYC
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Originally Posted by tracon
I would like to see AF, Transport and a few others sue some of the passengers on the flight. There were way to many pax taking pictures and taking personal belongings with themselvses. When an a/c slides off the runway and catches fire you get the fk out of the thing.
I am not sure that taking pictures did anyone any harm. If you are there in line waiting to bail out, might as well take pictures? I guess this shows there actually was no real panic.
Aug 6, 2005, 9:44 am
#294
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: YUL-YQB-BTV
Programs: SPG-Marriott Titanium Elite
Posts: 4,345
Originally Posted by DanJ
Someone joked at work this morning that the data would be edited in France to make it look more like the fault of the airport, and less on the pilots LOL. I can see the rhetoric now "Even though the plane touched down halfway down the runway in a rainstorm with a 25 know tailwind, French-built Airbus aircraft are so superior that they can still land and stop in short distances provided their isn't any standing water on the runway."
Maybe YYZ needs to invest in squeegy trucks.
Maybe YYZ needs to invest in squeegy trucks.
Aug 6, 2005, 9:47 am
#295
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Location: YUL-YQB-BTV
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Posts: 4,345
Originally Posted by Stranger
Agreed on the personal belongings thing.
I am not sure that taking pictures did anyone any harm. If you are there in line waiting to bail out, might as well take pictures? I guess this shows there actually was no real panic.
I am not sure that taking pictures did anyone any harm. If you are there in line waiting to bail out, might as well take pictures? I guess this shows there actually was no real panic.
Aug 6, 2005, 9:52 am
#296
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
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While I agree that there should be some compensation for the pax involved. Loss of documents, luggage and certainly mental distress are all reasonable claims but were do you get off asking $75M+. Maybe an option for 2 RTW tickets in F and lifetime FB Platinum status for any FT'ers involved. j/k
Aug 6, 2005, 9:57 am
#297
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Location: YYC
Posts: 23,797
Originally Posted by Super Larry
It was exactly the first thought that crossed my mind, them playing with the integrity of the data, specially with the hundreds of millions of dollars at stake. However, listening to Radio-Canada news, I've learned that the data upload will be done (has been done??) in presence of a Canadian inspector from the TSB of Transports Canada.
French press still talks about "weather" as the main cause. The GM article was interesting in that there was implicit speculation on the two pilots possibly disagreeing on the go around thing. Which sounds like a distinct possibility.
Aug 6, 2005, 10:21 am
#298
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Originally Posted by After Burner
Now what do suppose might have happened if the ravine wasn't there - just some flat grass with the 401 on the other side of a fence?
Hint: look at a map, don't trust the media.
Aug 6, 2005, 10:27 am
#299
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http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2005.../f109.raw.html
Just minutes after an Air France jet crashed in Toronto earlier this week during a storm, a second plane signalled it might be in trouble.
Just minutes after an Air France jet crashed in Toronto earlier this week during a storm, a second plane signalled it might be in trouble.
Aug 6, 2005, 10:54 am
#300
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: YHZ
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Originally Posted by tcook052
http://www.herald.ns.ca/stories/2005.../f109.raw.html
Just minutes after an Air France jet crashed in Toronto earlier this week during a storm, a second plane signalled it might be in trouble.
Just minutes after an Air France jet crashed in Toronto earlier this week during a storm, a second plane signalled it might be in trouble.
Eva Hoare forgot the obligatory interviews with confused/fightened/dazed passengers and their anxious/concerned/angry relatives waiting patiently/or with deepening anxiety in Toronto; obviously she should have used the Lazy Journalists Plane Story Generator.