Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Destinations > Americas > Canada
Reload this Page >

YVR December 2022 snowstorm impact

YVR December 2022 snowstorm impact

Old Dec 21, 2022, 8:59 am
  #166  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: YYZ
Programs: TK *G
Posts: 3,126
Originally Posted by Changeup2000
Thanks for confirmation. What do item B) and C) mean here?
Itís the UTC time when the NOTAM is in effect. (20)22-12-21 1500 UTC to 22-12-23 1300 UTC.
songsc is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 9:21 am
  #167  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 233
I could be completely wrong, and it's obviously not the reason this mess started, but it really seems like de-icing is the choke point for getting planes out of here right now. This Xiamen 787 has been occupying one of two operating de-ice bays since at least when I woke up this morning 90 mins ago. Only 2-3 planes that needed de-ice have taken off in the past hour.

I assume it's got 30cm of snow caked on to it which is causing the delay, and hopefully we're nearly done with getting the intl widebodies that got dumped on out of here.
eggsbenedict is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 9:26 am
  #168  
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: YEG
Programs: Aeroplan
Posts: 92
Newbie question for the FT'er here.

I see time out mentioned often, but what exactly is a time out? Is it an airline mandated maximum work hours for a crew?
fysloc is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 9:31 am
  #169  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Programs: AA
Posts: 14,907
Originally Posted by fysloc
Newbie question for the FT'er here.

I see time out mentioned often, but what exactly is a time out? Is it an airline mandated maximum work hours for a crew?
Airline and/or legally mandated maximum work hours for crew.
wrp96 is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 10:04 am
  #170  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SFO
Programs: AC SE MM, BA Gold, SQ Silver, Bonvoy Tit LTG, Hyatt Glob, HH Diamond
Posts: 44,783
Originally Posted by songsc
AC isnít the type of company that attracts people like this, and I doubt the company culture and policies encourage employees to behave like this.
Originally Posted by songsc
I am not very familiar with YVR airport authority, so I only commented about AC. And yes, I agree that the AIF should be used on real airport improvements that prepare the airport for the future, not temporary shining looking things.
I'd argue you're not that familiar with AC either. It's not hard to find Mark Nasr on the record saying things like that about many things in his department.

They lost a few good people 5 years ago, but the "people like this" you refer to started being hired a while before that.
YOWgary likes this.
canadiancow is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 10:07 am
  #171  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,326
Originally Posted by fly_yag
NOTAM was issued earlier today:

C4215/22 NOTAMN A) CYVR B) 2212211500 C) 2212231300 E) ARR NOT AUTH FOR ACFT WITH WINGSPAN GREATER THAN 118FT NOT REGISTERED IN CANADA OR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, EXCLUDING EMERG
I guess that's one way to speed up recovery before the next blast of weather.

Maybe the airport will be less of a zoo on Thursday. I guess I may see firsthand.
Bohemian1 is online now  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 11:41 am
  #172  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 233
Originally Posted by eggsbenedict
I could be completely wrong, and it's obviously not the reason this mess started, but it really seems like de-icing is the choke point for getting planes out of here right now. This Xiamen 787 has been occupying one of two operating de-ice bays since at least when I woke up this morning 90 mins ago. Only 2-3 planes that needed de-ice have taken off in the past hour.

I assume it's got 30cm of snow caked on to it which is causing the delay, and hopefully we're nearly done with getting the intl widebodies that got dumped on out of here.
As a followup to this, BA84 pushed back from the gate at 7:30, and had just made it to front of the line at de-icing at 9:30. Now at 10:30 it's returning to gate, presumably crew timed out. I guess at least there isn't an inbound BA flight that will need to park on the runway for 5 hours waiting for the gate to be free like yesterday...
Speedbird84 and Symmetre like this.
eggsbenedict is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 12:23 pm
  #173  
Moderator, Air Canada; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: YYC
Programs: AC SE MM, FB Plat, WS Plat, BA Silver, DL GM, Marriott Plat, Hilton Gold, Accor Silver
Posts: 16,919
Since most of the discussion in this thread is about YVR in general or airlines other than AC, I'm going to move it to the Canada forum.

Those wishing to discuss AC delayed or cancelled flights, issues with re-booking, etc as a result of this mess are requested to do so in the AC delayed/cancelled flight thread.

Adam Smith
AC Forum Moderator
Adam Smith is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 1:20 pm
  #174  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: YVR
Posts: 345
As eggsbenedict pointed put, some of the aircraft that hadn't moved for a couple days spent a long time with the deicing. AC33 last night spent about 1h15 on the pad, and Monday's BR9 flight spent >2h this morning.

Still a few international aircraft to clear out at this point - don't think NZ has attempted to leave since Monday. As well as 4Y, BA, NH and BR. Might be missing a few others.

Originally Posted by tracon
This is the Monday nights weather, starting at the bottom working up.
During moderate snow and low visibility at night, the deice fluid has no holdover time.
So back to the gate.
Now planes are back at the gate. There's to much snow to push them off the gate and no cleared parking areas to put the plane.
Appreciate the explanation, thanks tracon!
Speedbird84 is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 1:23 pm
  #175  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,069
A few pictures from yesterday.




tracon is online now  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 1:26 pm
  #176  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,069
AC34 and others waiting for gates.


AC34 waiting for ground crew. Not for long though.


AC8 & AC997
tracon is online now  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 1:43 pm
  #177  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Programs: AP 35K
Posts: 101
Any way to see which planes are in line to be deiced? Keeping an eye on WS1696
flyingpbandj is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 2:48 pm
  #178  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: YYJ
Programs: AC SE*MM, Bonvoy LT Plat, HH Gold, National EE, Sixt Plat, Hz 5*
Posts: 2,473
I'm in the YVR Dom MLL now. I recently went through security, no line whatsoever for both nexus and general. Nexus lane open and operating normally, no line for MLL, One or two PAX in SE checkin lineup. Other airline lineups outside of security still seemed quite long. Basically if you have a ticket and boarding pass, and no checked bags, everything seems to be smooth.

​​​​
Nitehawk is offline  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 3:43 pm
  #179  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: YVR - MILLS Waypoint (It's the third house on the left)
Programs: AC*SE100K, wood level status in various other programs
Posts: 6,326
Originally Posted by Nitehawk
I'm in the YVR Dom MLL now. I recently went through security, no line whatsoever for both nexus and general. Nexus lane open and operating normally, no line for MLL, One or two PAX in SE checkin lineup. Other airline lineups outside of security still seemed quite long. Basically if you have a ticket and boarding pass, and no checked bags, everything seems to be smooth.

​​​​
Good to know - thanks! Gives me hope for tomorrow.

The INT terminal could be very quiet with the current NOTAM.
Bohemian1 is online now  
Old Dec 21, 2022, 4:04 pm
  #180  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: YVR
Programs: Bottom feeder Star Gold
Posts: 2,652
Hi, long time listener, first time caller here.

Not quite true, but I've been away for a while and it's been glorious. Anyway:

One must wonder if this week's debacle will prompt some dramatic changes in the way YVR approaches winter ops and its relationships with its partner airlines. government agencies & handling companies. Every aspect of this goat romp was predictable or could be reasonably anticipated. This is not the first time adverse winter weather has affected the airport during the peak holiday season. I'm sitting in the luxury of an armchair well away from the inner workings of the airport, so it's probably unfair to cast blame on what went wrong, but the following seems likely. And before we get into the nitty-gritty, let's all agree that YVR (the airport) needs to take away the lesson that its relationship with the public (social media & on-the-ground information to passengers) and its relationship with the airlines both need to be drastically overhauled.

YVR spends good money on specific airport-focused weather prediction services, and they have access to very good meteorological info. This snow event didn't come as a surprise to them. They generally do a very good job with their snow removal on the runways & taxiways (in-house staff), but tend to do less well with clearing gates and access roads (contract companies). I think it was tracon above who mentioned it's all fine & well landing the airplane, but getting it the last few metres to the terminal is what matters most. And this is where YVR fell flat on its backside.

Most of the gates were occupied by delayed/cancelled flights, but nobody seemed able or willing to move static airplanes off the gates. Look at tracon's photos above. Those familiar with Gates 50-52 will notice AC widebodies sitting at each of them, covered in snow, having obviously been sitting idle all day. Each of those gates are swing gates - available for domestic or international arrivals. Why did YVR not compel AC to move their airplanes and tow them to their north hangar, or their south hangar, to the east parking spots or the south parking spots or to Runway 31, or anywhere but at a gate. I suspect the relationship between airport & airline, while mutually-beneficial, is not an equal partnership. To put it bluntly, AC generally has YVR by the short n' curlies, and is the senior partner in the marriage. But the terminal and the gates belong to YVR, and there needs to be a financial penalty imposed if an airline can't relocate its cancelled/idle flights within a reasonable timeframe. You'd think it would incentivize AC as well, with several of their own flights (from MEX, SYD, AKL) sitting on the runway/taxiway for hours after landing. I don't want to hear excuses about being short staffed or a lack of tug drivers, marshalers, baggage handlers etc. If AC wants to launch new flights ("ooh Bangkok, hey folks: Miami!, let's go double-daily to Sydney"), they'd better first ensure they have the staff to support them. And pay that staff enough that they can afford snow tires to get into work on time.

YVR too needs to understand the general public is sick of the past two years of 'short-staffed' excuses. Covid has come and largely gone, and it seems backwards that the airport trumpets its relentless push to return to 2019 revenues & passenger levels without first scaling up their own staff to be able to coordinate these sorts of debacles. No more Sunshine & Lollipops social media posts, nor pleas to "exercise patience" to passengers stuck in the airport for 36 hours, or spending their 7th hour onboard an airplane parked within a loft wedge distance of the terminal. The public doesn't need to see all of the sausage-making processes, but honest, clear, timely information on what the delays are, how they're being resolved, and best-guess timelines for recovery would buy them oodles of support. YVR has lost years worth of credibility - admittedly not all of its own fault - since this week began, and I bet many of its international airline partners are also quite upset at being unable to access gates occupied by a dominant local airline, and then being told to piss off for two days during their lucrative holiday travel season.

Will this be the catalyst to shuffle the deck on priority construction projects and address the lack of north-south taxiways? How do they solve the problem that the best place to conduct remote-stand operations using buses is the same location used to de-ice all the flights? Were there attempts to use the east parking spots to offload passengers via buses and deliver them to the four bus gates in the D pier. There are 3 widebody and 10 narrowbody stands east of the transborder pier (fully lit and served by access roads) that if cleared, with ramps & buses pre-positioned, would have alleviated the logjam. There are a further 2 widebody (or 4 narrowbody) stands south of the A pier. One wonders if the buses are even in use, do drivers have contracts, was this even considered? We saw AM park at Gate 29* and JL at Gate 20. Good. These are swing gates and should be used as the norm rather than the exception. It seemed this light-bulb moment took many hours to illuminate; the affected aircraft had already been sitting for hours prior to docking. *Gate 29 is not a swing gate, but has a ramp leading from the jetway to the apron from which a bus can shuttle passengers/crew to the airside entrance door to the main immigration hall. Many of you may remember doing this route in reverse during AC's Intl-Dom bus connection phase a few years ago.

Even now, 30 hours after the last snowflake fell, we have two 737 arrivals (AM & WS) sitting for an hour & counting on the crosswind runway, presumably waiting for a gate. Airlines and their contract ground-handling providers need to ensure they have the staff & equipment to support these airplanes - push them off the gate between arrival & departure if they can't facilitate a normal turnaround - so that recent arrivals can at least offload their passengers & bags.

And snow is in the forecast before a return to seasonal temps this weekend. Too late to get everybody where they need to go before Christmas.
CZAMFlyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.