YYZ / Toronto Pearson Customs Preclearance to USA
May 19, 2019, 4:36 am
#46
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: ARN
Programs: AC, SK, Marriott
Posts: 1,149
Yeah, but the flip side is it requires longer connections in Canada. I got into this thread in the first place because of family who needlessly had to spend a night in Toronto because preclearance was closed but they otherwise could have easily caught a flight (inbound and outbound both significantly delayed due to weather, but YYZ preclearance closed at 21:00). For YAA-YBB-ABC connections, I think preclearance is a clear loser (as long as ABC isn’t LGA or DCA). For YAA-ABC-DEF, preclearance is a clear winner (avoid Customs and the long MCT at the US connection point). For nonstop YAA-ABC, it’s more of a wash/depends on the relative efficiency of Customs at the two airports. But in that case you have to arrive at YAA with time for Customs to take a long time; if Customs is at your arrival city and goes efficiently, you can leave the airport immediately.
Pre-clearance closing early is a different story, one that I have thankfully not had to deal with. As my flights originate in Canada.
May 19, 2019, 6:18 am
#47
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,107
Yeah, but the flip side is it requires longer connections in Canada. I got into this thread in the first place because of family who needlessly had to spend a night in Toronto because preclearance was closed but they otherwise could have easily caught a flight (inbound and outbound both significantly delayed due to weather, but YYZ preclearance closed at 21:00). For YAA-YBB-ABC connections, I think preclearance is a clear loser (as long as ABC isn’t LGA or DCA). For YAA-ABC-DEF, preclearance is a clear winner (avoid Customs and the long MCT at the US connection point). For nonstop YAA-ABC, it’s more of a wash/depends on the relative efficiency of Customs at the two airports. But in that case you have to arrive at YAA with time for Customs to take a long time; if Customs is at your arrival city and goes efficiently, you can leave the airport immediately.
May 19, 2019, 6:47 pm
#48
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,435
I definitely prefer the customs in YYZ over LAX...except...I was on an extremely tight connection of 20 minutes because of a 2-hour delay of the original flight.
It was compounded by false information from the AC flight attendant, who told us that we would NOT have to go through security at YYZ. He also told us, while still on board flight #1 , that AC had re-booked us on a new connecting flight, but we weren't. But my furious complaint to AC will be shared in another thread...
It was compounded by false information from the AC flight attendant, who told us that we would NOT have to go through security at YYZ. He also told us, while still on board flight #1 , that AC had re-booked us on a new connecting flight, but we weren't. But my furious complaint to AC will be shared in another thread...
May 19, 2019, 11:20 pm
#49
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,950
Nothing's perfect. Sure, it's possible to miss USCBP closing at YYZ but that's rare as transborder flights are not scheduled for after that time anyway. OTOH, there's probably a greater chance you could miss a connection at a US airport due to late arrival and/or USCBP taking a long time in the US. Pick your poison (well, actually, we can't).
With my travel patterns, I’m much more likely to be connecting at a Canadian airport than at an American one, so I personally would prefer that preclearance went away, on balance. It’s a moot point anyway: it won’t. But this tangent started with a response to a question about what is gained with preclearance: for me personally, the answer is that more is lost than gained. For those mostly connecting at US hubs (almost certainly a larger set of people), the answer is probably the opposite.
May 20, 2019, 2:23 am
#50
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK, Starwood > Marriott, Hilton, Accor
Posts: 7,294
Of course, the main reason for there being preclearance at Canadian airports is that this enables flights from Canadian airports into smaller US airports that do not have an intl. arrivals facility, or one with limited capabilities.
AC's regional network makes quite extensive use of that capability, while PD struggles with US services due to YTZ not having pre-clearance.
AC's regional network makes quite extensive use of that capability, while PD struggles with US services due to YTZ not having pre-clearance.
May 20, 2019, 7:10 am
#51
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,107
For sure nothing's perfect. But as I said, I prefer to avoid Customs at the connection point if possible (and I think that’s entirely consistent with what you said): I have much more control over running to catch a delayed airside connection than I do waiting to clear security (the big issue for those with NEXUS/Global Entry, especially since there’s no PreCheck at Canadian airports so laptops and tablets have to come out) and Customs. That’s why I said I prefer preclearance when my connection airport is the US one and prefer Customs on arrival when my connection point is in Canada. Obviously, they can’t configure the airports to always work that way for everyone!
With my travel patterns, I’m much more likely to be connecting at a Canadian airport than at an American one, so I personally would prefer that preclearance went away, on balance. It’s a moot point anyway: it won’t. But this tangent started with a response to a question about what is gained with preclearance: for me personally, the answer is that more is lost than gained. For those mostly connecting at US hubs (almost certainly a larger set of people), the answer is probably the opposite.
Think about this... what would life be like without Pre-clearance? You can be sure the last scheduled departure for all but the largest US airports would have to be much earlier than 9 PM Eastern and we're not even talking about the very small airports which don't even have US immigration facilities (plus LGA and DCA).
May 20, 2019, 9:19 am
#52
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,950
Of course, the main reason for there being preclearance at Canadian airports is that this enables flights from Canadian airports into smaller US airports that do not have an intl. arrivals facility, or one with limited capabilities.
AC's regional network makes quite extensive use of that capability.
AC's regional network makes quite extensive use of that capability.
I've made many Canada --> US airside connections at YYZ. I can't recall ever waiting more than five minutes (generally more like one minute) for the airside security check in T1. That said, transborder security screening has nothing to do with Pre-clearance anyway. And with GE or Nexus, you basically just walk right through USCBP.
The need to go through transborder security screening does have to do with Pre-clearance. When flying out of YLW or YYJ (no pre-clearance) to the US (or any non-US international flight from Canada), you go through the same security as domestic Canada passengers and don't have to reclear security on a connection.
Think about this... what would life be like without Pre-clearance? You can be sure the last scheduled departure for all but the largest US airports would have to be much earlier than 9 PM Eastern and we're not even talking about the very small airports which don't even have US immigration facilities (plus LGA and DCA).
All I'm saying is that I much prefer not to have Customs and security at my connection point, as it makes some connections impossible because of MCT and has made me unnecessarily miss connections during relatively minor IRROPS and/or requires building in an extra uncertainty in connection time (the part that's directly relevant to this thread); I therefore avoid preclearance connections on the rare occasions when it's possible. But as I've also said, I certainly prefer preclearance when originating in Canada and connecting in a US airport.
May 20, 2019, 2:14 pm
#53
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: ZRH / YUL
Programs: UA, TK, Starwood > Marriott, Hilton, Accor
Posts: 7,294
It does? With the exception of DCA and LGA, which AC Express destinations don't have US Customs?
Also, don't forget the huge connections convenience won by not arriving at the Intl. terminals in ORD, LAX or MIA.
May 20, 2019, 3:13 pm
#54
Join Date: May 2016
Location: YUL
Programs: Aeroplan, NEXUS
Posts: 432
IND definitely does. DL just started CDG-IND service, year-round multiple times weekly. I can say that the int'l arrivals facility is small, but it definitely works. Due to the FedEx 'hub' at IND, USCBP Officers are usually on hand tmk
May 20, 2019, 4:31 pm
#55
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: UA MM
Posts: 4,107
All of those airports listed have customs and immigration except for maybe PVD. Now that doesn't mean they're going to be open up to midnight or something like that for those last flights out of YYZ.
May 20, 2019, 5:15 pm
#56
Join Date: May 2016
Location: YUL
Programs: Aeroplan, NEXUS
Posts: 432
True, but all pre-cleared flights are still subject to potential re-inspection (as rare as it sounds).
May 20, 2019, 6:47 pm
#57
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,950
Jun 5, 2019, 4:55 pm
#58
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 9
Escorts for people who were called out for a deeper security check (full carry on baggage run through, questioning, etc.). They escort them to the front of the line because the process takes a bit of time to complete and it is not in anyone's interest to have people missing their flights due to a surprise rummage.
Pre clearance mean that you clear US Customs/Immigration in YYZ instead of in LAX. You land in LAX as if you were coming from a US domestic flight. The theory is that it is more convenient to clear US customs that way.
Not sure about the escorted line cutters. Maybe their incoming flights were late and they had a tight connection.
Not sure about the escorted line cutters. Maybe their incoming flights were late and they had a tight connection.
Jun 5, 2019, 5:09 pm
#60
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,950
What about MDW? If you're saying it benefits from pre-clearance, the only Canadian service to MDW is from YTZ, which has no pre-clearance. There's also service to Mexico and the Caribbean. Both must use Customs facilities at MDW, though I've never flown internationally there.