Rude Canadian immigration
Feb 6, 2011, 5:13 pm
#76
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, NYC, somewhere on planet Earth
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Canada was a poor immigration access point and many Al Quida cells penetrated due to lax tacking. US subsidized Canada to improve border entry points in exchange for Canada's Iraq support.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US.
can you identify the sources of this information? 
its the first time I have heard this! 
how many cells have slipped across the border? Why are my tax dollars supporting Canadian border security? i need to know ASAP! 
Last edited by neuron; Feb 6, 2011 at 7:06 pm Reason: needed emoticons, lots of them!
Feb 6, 2011, 6:41 pm
#77
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Programs: United MileagePlus Silver, Nexus, Global Entry
Posts: 8,798
Get your history books out. Canada never "supported" Iraq. At the time, it was a bone of contention between the Bush Administration and the Canadian government.
Last edited by gglave; Feb 6, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Feb 6, 2011, 7:29 pm
#78
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
The purpose of this thread was not to ask for judgement about what happened to me. It was about inquiring on others' experiences with Canadian customs, and their comparison with other borders. And, as such, many have contributed with their experiences, and I have found their opinions very interesting.
You complained about your recent encounter, then you generalize that it happens all the time...... But you never mentioned exactly what the problem was. Was it you that did something to provoke someone else? To me, if you dont tell us exactly what has happened, this is just another baseless complaint and a waste of writing space on FT.
Like most others have said, there are friendlier one and less friendlier ones.... some may have a better day some may have a grumpy day and that applies to all types of human beings be it CATSA staff, airline staff, coffee staff or just another plain stranger. But to quote someone rude and abusive, you better back your comments up if you want others to respect or sympathize you here
If so, what's so different between Canada and other countries? Because it doesn't seem to happen anywhere else that I know.
And the guy is not a customer service rep, but he is a public servant, whose salary is paid by your taxes and mine. And as a public servant, he should show respect for others. I also have some power in my job, and that doesn't mean that I can abuse it in any way it pleases me.
And the guy is not a customer service rep, but he is a public servant, whose salary is paid by your taxes and mine. And as a public servant, he should show respect for others. I also have some power in my job, and that doesn't mean that I can abuse it in any way it pleases me.
I didn't say that rudeness was the norm. I started the thread because the guy this morning was indeed rude.
In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there is at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there is at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
Of course we don't have to agree, but you seem to be accusing me of needing "a dose of real work education".
Regarding the citizenship thing, I'm a citizen of a third world country too, and I have done customs and immigration in Canada as a visitor, as a permanent resident, and as a citizen (more than 30 times in all). Very rarely are they polite, usually they are just distant; from time to time, like today, they are rude.
Regarding the "dose of real world education", I lived in the 3rd world for 30+ years before coming to Canada. Besides Canada, I have crossed the border into Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, India, Ireland, Italy, Macedonia, Malaysia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, UK, Uruguay, USA, Venezuela. I think that's a big enough pool for comparison.
I still mantain that Canadian officers are particularly rude. And that I have enough "real world education".
Regarding the citizenship thing, I'm a citizen of a third world country too, and I have done customs and immigration in Canada as a visitor, as a permanent resident, and as a citizen (more than 30 times in all). Very rarely are they polite, usually they are just distant; from time to time, like today, they are rude.
Regarding the "dose of real world education", I lived in the 3rd world for 30+ years before coming to Canada. Besides Canada, I have crossed the border into Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, India, Ireland, Italy, Macedonia, Malaysia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, UK, Uruguay, USA, Venezuela. I think that's a big enough pool for comparison.
I still mantain that Canadian officers are particularly rude. And that I have enough "real world education".
Just arrived in YYZ half an hour ago. I usually complain that immigration at Canadian airports is less pleasant than anywhere else; today, it was way beyond that, the official was plainly rude.
As a Canadian citizen, I find it very annoying that the border where I'm questioned the most is that of my own country. I'm not as versed a traveler as some people here, but still I have visited 40 different countries; and in none of them are immigration officials as unfriendly as in Canada.
Does anyone else have the same experience (or different, for that matter?)
As a Canadian citizen, I find it very annoying that the border where I'm questioned the most is that of my own country. I'm not as versed a traveler as some people here, but still I have visited 40 different countries; and in none of them are immigration officials as unfriendly as in Canada.
Does anyone else have the same experience (or different, for that matter?)
Feb 6, 2011, 9:48 pm
#79
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Alexandria, Va. USA
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, DL Silver, UA Gold, *A Gold, OW Emerald
Posts: 1,492
Western Canada is very secure
The last time I flew into YVR I was taken in for further interrogation. They were very concerned about my visit for only a weekend. A search of my belongings revealed a packet of sugar left over from the coffee service on the plane and a couple of cough drops that I use if I experience stuffed sinuses in the case of a head cold.
Since I had not declared on my form that I was bringing food (pack of sugar and two cough drops) into the country I was threatened with a $200 fine. But he was a nice guy (his words) and let me off with a warning.
This took an hour. I usually get taken aside for a twenty minute interview.
- Why are you here?
- Who do you know here?
- Why are you really here?
It brought back memories of border formalities getting into East Germany.
Since I had not declared on my form that I was bringing food (pack of sugar and two cough drops) into the country I was threatened with a $200 fine. But he was a nice guy (his words) and let me off with a warning.
This took an hour. I usually get taken aside for a twenty minute interview.
- Why are you here?
- Who do you know here?
- Why are you really here?
It brought back memories of border formalities getting into East Germany.
Feb 6, 2011, 9:58 pm
#80
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
I got secondaried before...... I dont find that as a threat, just like a police officer, they can issue a citation/fine but at their discretion.
But sometimes they are a little toughie in questioning (either too long of a trip or too short of a trip)
But sometimes they are a little toughie in questioning (either too long of a trip or too short of a trip)
Feb 7, 2011, 7:18 am
#81
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YUL land of 'em frenchies
Posts: 196
I got seconded too recently, coming back from a weekend in Florida. Little miss immigration lady was completely dumbfounded at the idea of trading 70 feet of snow for 25 degrees celsius on a beach for 2 days
Not that my file is filled with those leave-on-friday-evening-come-back-sunday-night ''trips'' to the US or anything
And on my declaration card, I ticked no to everything, and then in secondary I got threatened with a 800$ fine because I didn't declare my (canadian) packet of gum. And I was already in a grumpy mood because it was well past 1am, I had a cold, I couldn't pop my ears so I was practically deaf and I was still feeling the burn and swelling of my two recently acquired Man-Of-War stings...so in the moment, I let out a big ''so what?''
Haven't been back thru since then, but I was scheduled to have my nexus interview in a few days finally, and now I'm worrying I'll be denied because I'll have been red-flagged because of that incident...
Not that my file is filled with those leave-on-friday-evening-come-back-sunday-night ''trips'' to the US or anything
And on my declaration card, I ticked no to everything, and then in secondary I got threatened with a 800$ fine because I didn't declare my (canadian) packet of gum. And I was already in a grumpy mood because it was well past 1am, I had a cold, I couldn't pop my ears so I was practically deaf and I was still feeling the burn and swelling of my two recently acquired Man-Of-War stings...so in the moment, I let out a big ''so what?''
Haven't been back thru since then, but I was scheduled to have my nexus interview in a few days finally, and now I'm worrying I'll be denied because I'll have been red-flagged because of that incident...
Feb 7, 2011, 7:49 am
#82
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
i wouldnt worry too much...... the NEXUS people are quite friendly. If they ask, just say "I bought my chewing gum from Canada....brought it Florida and never knew once it leaves the country it cannot come home again"
its not like you intentionally brought in prohibitive food. afterall you were not aware (and the declaration card) does not mention you need to declare all foods, only plants/fruits/veges/meat/dairy/nuts/seed
its not like you intentionally brought in prohibitive food. afterall you were not aware (and the declaration card) does not mention you need to declare all foods, only plants/fruits/veges/meat/dairy/nuts/seed
I got seconded too recently, coming back from a weekend in Florida. Little miss immigration lady was completely dumbfounded at the idea of trading 70 feet of snow for 25 degrees celsius on a beach for 2 days
Not that my file is filled with those leave-on-friday-evening-come-back-sunday-night ''trips'' to the US or anything
And on my declaration card, I ticked no to everything, and then in secondary I got threatened with a 800$ fine because I didn't declare my (canadian) packet of gum. And I was already in a grumpy mood because it was well past 1am, I had a cold, I couldn't pop my ears so I was practically deaf and I was still feeling the burn and swelling of my two recently acquired Man-Of-War stings...so in the moment, I let out a big ''so what?''
Haven't been back thru since then, but I was scheduled to have my nexus interview in a few days finally, and now I'm worrying I'll be denied because I'll have been red-flagged because of that incident...
Not that my file is filled with those leave-on-friday-evening-come-back-sunday-night ''trips'' to the US or anything
And on my declaration card, I ticked no to everything, and then in secondary I got threatened with a 800$ fine because I didn't declare my (canadian) packet of gum. And I was already in a grumpy mood because it was well past 1am, I had a cold, I couldn't pop my ears so I was practically deaf and I was still feeling the burn and swelling of my two recently acquired Man-Of-War stings...so in the moment, I let out a big ''so what?''
Haven't been back thru since then, but I was scheduled to have my nexus interview in a few days finally, and now I'm worrying I'll be denied because I'll have been red-flagged because of that incident...
Feb 7, 2011, 8:20 am
#83
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: YUL land of 'em frenchies
Posts: 196
i wouldnt worry too much...... the NEXUS people are quite friendly. If they ask, just say "I bought my chewing gum from Canada....brought it Florida and never knew once it leaves the country it cannot come home again"
its not like you intentionally brought in prohibitive food. afterall you were not aware (and the declaration card) does not mention you need to declare all foods, only plants/fruits/veges/meat/dairy/nuts/seed
its not like you intentionally brought in prohibitive food. afterall you were not aware (and the declaration card) does not mention you need to declare all foods, only plants/fruits/veges/meat/dairy/nuts/seed
Can you get in trouble for over-declaring? lol
Feb 7, 2011, 9:51 am
#84
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
I think what you did was okay, gum is allowed in but verbally declared to the CBSA officer. You do not need to tick yes on the form as it is not "meat/meat product, dairy product, fruits, vegetables, seeds, nuts, plants and animals or their parts/products, cut flowers, soil, wood/wood products, birds, insects."
having said that, i used to use the manual lines instead of NEXUS line through Niagara Falls area so I could declare my Buffalo/Honey garlic wings I was taking home. Timmies I verbally declare with the NEXUS line and we end up with a chuckle (what you mean Buffalo's Timmies is better than Ontario Timmies?)
Feb 7, 2011, 9:51 am
#85
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
Here is an interesting article, why do CBSA officers question you so much....
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/more-cars-b...82818-102.html
Cause some people are not truthful!
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/more-cars-b...82818-102.html
Cause some people are not truthful!
Feb 7, 2011, 11:01 am
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,573
I have to say this thread really surprised me. I have remarked on more than one occasion how friendly and nice Canadian border/customs/immigration folk are. They ask me a few questions, none of which I have ever had an issue with, they are about where I have been, why, what I am bringing back etc. Back when I was a visitor they asked me questions about where I was staying and for how long and once they asked where the apartment was (to which I replied using a major mall as a locator, and then we got talking about how they liked the mall too etc). I have NO issue with any of it, because I am genuine in my answers, and they have never been rude (cold, yes, disinterested, yes, rude, never).
The US counterparts on the other hand have actually been downright rude to me, accusing me of lying on one occasion - I had been back and forth over the border all summer for work, all over the US but the same company. Then I popped down to NY for a friend's wedding, and stated 'personal' as my reason - the guy wasn't having any of it - he kept saying 'are you sure' etc. well, yes, you know what I am sure. Took ages, and I wasn't sure what he was getting at, until he came out and said 'you must be going for work'. Well no, I mustn't! Prat. Sorted it out eventually, but he was very rude, made me feel in the wrong even tho I wasn't and generally peed me off! Others have been condescending (like when I was going to see my niece for her and my birthday - we share the date) and they did an 'aha' moment when they thought they had caught me lying saying 'I thought it was your neice's birthday' - well yes, it is, mine too, just look in that little booklet called a passport in front of you. Of course that is what I was thinking, not saying!
I can't remember the last time any EU airport asked me questions, I just walk in and out.
The scariest was Russia some years ago, complete with a big old mirror you KNEW had people watching you behind. My Russian was bad, and I knew they spoke perfect English, but they made it seem like that was unreasonable of me and they made me feel like a criminal for wanting to come and be a tourist there.
The US counterparts on the other hand have actually been downright rude to me, accusing me of lying on one occasion - I had been back and forth over the border all summer for work, all over the US but the same company. Then I popped down to NY for a friend's wedding, and stated 'personal' as my reason - the guy wasn't having any of it - he kept saying 'are you sure' etc. well, yes, you know what I am sure. Took ages, and I wasn't sure what he was getting at, until he came out and said 'you must be going for work'. Well no, I mustn't! Prat. Sorted it out eventually, but he was very rude, made me feel in the wrong even tho I wasn't and generally peed me off! Others have been condescending (like when I was going to see my niece for her and my birthday - we share the date) and they did an 'aha' moment when they thought they had caught me lying saying 'I thought it was your neice's birthday' - well yes, it is, mine too, just look in that little booklet called a passport in front of you. Of course that is what I was thinking, not saying!
I can't remember the last time any EU airport asked me questions, I just walk in and out.
The scariest was Russia some years ago, complete with a big old mirror you KNEW had people watching you behind. My Russian was bad, and I knew they spoke perfect English, but they made it seem like that was unreasonable of me and they made me feel like a criminal for wanting to come and be a tourist there.
Feb 7, 2011, 5:53 pm
#88
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA. USA
Programs: MR, AA, UA, DL, AVIS and growing
Posts: 1,172
There are multiple sources about Canada's support for Iraq war. STart with wikipedia but expand to WSJ, NYT, etc. Here is a wikipedia linl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
"Canada, despite not joining the invading coalition, still participated in the conflict in Iraq, joining a number of non-belligerent nations in helping to rebuild the country post-invasion, including the training of Iraqi police and army officers, and contributing approximately $300 million towards this effort."
Though no declaration of war was issued, the Governor General-in-Council did order the mobilization of a number of Canadian Forces personnel to serve actively in Iraq.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
"Canada, despite not joining the invading coalition, still participated in the conflict in Iraq, joining a number of non-belligerent nations in helping to rebuild the country post-invasion, including the training of Iraqi police and army officers, and contributing approximately $300 million towards this effort."
Though no declaration of war was issued, the Governor General-in-Council did order the mobilization of a number of Canadian Forces personnel to serve actively in Iraq.[1]
Feb 7, 2011, 6:19 pm
#89
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, NYC, somewhere on planet Earth
Programs: UA 1K, AA ExPlat, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 8,289
There are multiple sources about Canada's support for Iraq war. STart with wikipedia but expand to WSJ, NYT, etc. Here is a wikipedia linl:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
"Canada, despite not joining the invading coalition, still participated in the conflict in Iraq, joining a number of non-belligerent nations in helping to rebuild the country post-invasion, including the training of Iraqi police and army officers, and contributing approximately $300 million towards this effort."
Though no declaration of war was issued, the Governor General-in-Council did order the mobilization of a number of Canadian Forces personnel to serve actively in Iraq.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
"Canada, despite not joining the invading coalition, still participated in the conflict in Iraq, joining a number of non-belligerent nations in helping to rebuild the country post-invasion, including the training of Iraqi police and army officers, and contributing approximately $300 million towards this effort."
Though no declaration of war was issued, the Governor General-in-Council did order the mobilization of a number of Canadian Forces personnel to serve actively in Iraq.[1]
WRT to Canada in the Iraq war, Canada refused to join in the invasion, as it was wrong (and time did prove that the 'intelligence' data was very wrong!) If you feel that training police in the absence of security is still part of the war effort, sorry, but it goes along with Canada's history of security and peacekeeping.
Now, back to my inquiring emoticons and your post -
"Canada was a poor immigration access point and many Al Quida cells penetrated due to lax tacking. US subsidized Canada to improve border entry points in exchange for Canada's Iraq support.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US."
Cite, please. Which terrorist cells and how much money was given to Canada for border security. Merci beaucoup!
Last edited by neuron; Feb 7, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Feb 7, 2011, 7:51 pm
#90
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Seattle, WA. USA
Programs: MR, AA, UA, DL, AVIS and growing
Posts: 1,172
1. You are clearly wrong. Canada did in fact join the Iraq support mission. Not initially but then again read my words I said "Canada did join"!!!!!
2. http://www.adl.org/terror/tu/tu_0401_canada.asp
"According to the CSIS, terrorists from 50 different international terrorist organizations come to Canada posing as refugees. Nearly 300,000 immigrants are admitted each year to Canada, many of whom seek political asylum and safe haven. Canada, however, does not detain refugee seekers upon entry, even those with questionable backgrounds, so thousands of potential terrorists disappear annually into Canada's ethnic communities. Armed with a fraudulent French passport, for example, Ahmed Ressam had entered Canada in 1994 claiming refugee status."
I won't do all of your demands of multiple articles which are available. Canada had a lax process in pre-2003 that allowed refugees who were terrorists to slip into Canada. Some of these were suspected al quida cells!
Re-read the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
Canada as many other nations to get money from the USA finally joined the Iraq war.
"Canada, despite not joining the invading coalition, still participated in the conflict in Iraq,"
2. http://www.adl.org/terror/tu/tu_0401_canada.asp
"According to the CSIS, terrorists from 50 different international terrorist organizations come to Canada posing as refugees. Nearly 300,000 immigrants are admitted each year to Canada, many of whom seek political asylum and safe haven. Canada, however, does not detain refugee seekers upon entry, even those with questionable backgrounds, so thousands of potential terrorists disappear annually into Canada's ethnic communities. Armed with a fraudulent French passport, for example, Ahmed Ressam had entered Canada in 1994 claiming refugee status."
I won't do all of your demands of multiple articles which are available. Canada had a lax process in pre-2003 that allowed refugees who were terrorists to slip into Canada. Some of these were suspected al quida cells!
Re-read the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
Canada as many other nations to get money from the USA finally joined the Iraq war.
"Canada, despite not joining the invading coalition, still participated in the conflict in Iraq,"
I believe you may have confused my query with gglave's post. My emoticons were inquiring about your terrorist cell slipping across the border and the US paying for Cdn border security sources.
WRT to Canada in the Iraq war, Canada refused to join in the invasion, as it was wrong (and time did prove that the 'intelligence' data was very wrong!) If you feel that training police in the absence of security is still part of the war effort, sorry, but it goes along with Canada's history of security and peacekeeping.
Now, back to my inquiring emoticons and your post -
"Canada was a poor immigration access point and many Al Quida cells penetrated due to lax tacking. US subsidized Canada to improve border entry points in exchange for Canada's Iraq support.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US."
Cite, please. Which terrorist cells and how much money was given to Canada for border security. Merci beaucoup!
WRT to Canada in the Iraq war, Canada refused to join in the invasion, as it was wrong (and time did prove that the 'intelligence' data was very wrong!) If you feel that training police in the absence of security is still part of the war effort, sorry, but it goes along with Canada's history of security and peacekeeping.
Now, back to my inquiring emoticons and your post -
"Canada was a poor immigration access point and many Al Quida cells penetrated due to lax tacking. US subsidized Canada to improve border entry points in exchange for Canada's Iraq support.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US."
Cite, please. Which terrorist cells and how much money was given to Canada for border security. Merci beaucoup!
Last edited by euromannn; Feb 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm