Rude Canadian immigration
Feb 5, 2011, 4:46 pm
#61
Join Date: Feb 2007
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A number of years ago I kept my boat (yacht 
) at a marina in the US just south of YVR. I was across the line weekly, if not more often. It is a small outpost with light traffic, so I encountered the same agents frequently. This went on for at least 10 years, and of course after a while we recognized each other. (They still asked the same inane questions, like "Citizenship?" Unspoken answer: "Same as yesterday, Moron".) My conclusion: there is absolutely and unconditionally no doubt that the Canadian agents were more rude, snotty, and generally unpleasant that the US guys. I used to say that someone fed them nasty pills for breakfast. The women tended to be worse than the men. (Apologies if any women here are offended by that, but it is a statement of fact.) I said "US guys" intentionally because I rarely encountered a female US agent. It seems to be the same today - very few women on the US side. 
Over the past 10 years during my air travel I haven't had a problem with either Canadian or US agents, however the US ones tend to be more pleasant and friendly. I find if you engage them in a friendly greeting and small talk it disarms them. I also go out of my way not to antagonize them, because once your name is in their system you can expect trouble for the rest of your life. I am very wary of big power in the hands of small people (eg. CATSA) and I simply don't trust them.
On the other hand, one of my hobbies is antagonizing CATSA agents.
) at a marina in the US just south of YVR. I was across the line weekly, if not more often. It is a small outpost with light traffic, so I encountered the same agents frequently. This went on for at least 10 years, and of course after a while we recognized each other. (They still asked the same inane questions, like "Citizenship?" Unspoken answer: "Same as yesterday, Moron".) My conclusion: there is absolutely and unconditionally no doubt that the Canadian agents were more rude, snotty, and generally unpleasant that the US guys. I used to say that someone fed them nasty pills for breakfast. The women tended to be worse than the men. (Apologies if any women here are offended by that, but it is a statement of fact.) I said "US guys" intentionally because I rarely encountered a female US agent. It seems to be the same today - very few women on the US side. Over the past 10 years during my air travel I haven't had a problem with either Canadian or US agents, however the US ones tend to be more pleasant and friendly. I find if you engage them in a friendly greeting and small talk it disarms them. I also go out of my way not to antagonize them, because once your name is in their system you can expect trouble for the rest of your life. I am very wary of big power in the hands of small people (eg. CATSA) and I simply don't trust them.
On the other hand, one of my hobbies is antagonizing CATSA agents
.
Feb 5, 2011, 5:17 pm
#62
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan
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Of course we don't have to agree, but you seem to be accusing me of needing "a dose of real work education".
Regarding the citizenship thing, I'm a citizen of a third world country too, and I have done customs and immigration in Canada as a visitor, as a permanent resident, and as a citizen (more than 30 times in all). Very rarely are they polite, usually they are just distant; from time to time, like today, they are rude.
Regarding the "dose of real world education", I lived in the 3rd world for 30+ years before coming to Canada. Besides Canada, I have crossed the border into Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, India, Ireland, Italy, Macedonia, Malaysia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, UK, Uruguay, USA, Venezuela. I think that's a big enough pool for comparison.
I still mantain that Canadian officers are particularly rude. And that I have enough "real world education".
Regarding the citizenship thing, I'm a citizen of a third world country too, and I have done customs and immigration in Canada as a visitor, as a permanent resident, and as a citizen (more than 30 times in all). Very rarely are they polite, usually they are just distant; from time to time, like today, they are rude.
Regarding the "dose of real world education", I lived in the 3rd world for 30+ years before coming to Canada. Besides Canada, I have crossed the border into Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Croatia, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, India, Ireland, Italy, Macedonia, Malaysia, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, UK, Uruguay, USA, Venezuela. I think that's a big enough pool for comparison.
I still mantain that Canadian officers are particularly rude. And that I have enough "real world education".
I don't know what Canadian officers have done to you. To me it is always: "Where are you coming from?" "What did you do there?" "Are you bringing anything with you?". Answer and off you go. Or do you want a flower necklace and a bar of chocolate from them? I understand that you can get the odd curmudgeon. But I fail to see how rudeness can be the norm over 30+ border crossings.
Feb 5, 2011, 6:45 pm
#63
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In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there is at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
Last edited by tinchote; Feb 5, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Feb 5, 2011, 6:56 pm
#64
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I didn't say that rudeness was the norm. I started the thread because the guy this morning was indeed rude.
In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
Feb 5, 2011, 7:59 pm
#65
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
your still beating around the bush.... what exactly did the customs agent do that was "rude"..... i can say you have an attitude too and your whining over a non issue........but i refrain to because I do not know the full circumstances........
when u travelled or not travelled with your kids, was it the same officer? different officer works differently. similarly some people have good days and good attitudes and some are bad. its the norm of every organization.
your talking about law enforcement staff undertake a proactive investigation to see whether a stranger (like yourself and myself) are doing anything illegal, they are not a customer service rep inviting you to canada.
if you still dont feel convinced then read through the CBSA website and give them a feedback
when u travelled or not travelled with your kids, was it the same officer? different officer works differently. similarly some people have good days and good attitudes and some are bad. its the norm of every organization.
your talking about law enforcement staff undertake a proactive investigation to see whether a stranger (like yourself and myself) are doing anything illegal, they are not a customer service rep inviting you to canada.
if you still dont feel convinced then read through the CBSA website and give them a feedback
I didn't say that rudeness was the norm. I started the thread because the guy this morning was indeed rude.
In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there is at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
In any case, the point is that since I live in Canada, for every crossing of the Canadian border there is at least one crossing of another border (and sometimes more); and the only place where they have made me feel bad (more than once) is at the Canadian border. In particular, there is an enormous difference in attitude depending on whether I'm with my kids or not (friendly when I'm with the kids, cold and/or aggressive when I'm alone). I find that unprofessional.
Also, since I'm citizen of two countries, I "come back home" in two different places. And, again, only the Canadian agents have made me feel bad.
The point of this thread was to comment on whether or not Canadian agents behave somewhat different that in other places. And it seems that I'm not the only one feeling that way.
Feb 5, 2011, 8:12 pm
#66
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Feb 5, 2011, 9:14 pm
#67
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your talking about law enforcement staff undertake a proactive investigation to see whether a stranger (like yourself and myself) are doing anything illegal, they are not a customer service rep inviting you to canada.
if you still dont feel convinced then read through the CBSA website and give them a feedback
if you still dont feel convinced then read through the CBSA website and give them a feedback
And the guy is not a customer service rep, but he is a public servant, whose salary is paid by your taxes and mine. And as a public servant, he should show respect for others. I also have some power in my job, and that doesn't mean that I can abuse it in any way it pleases me.
Feb 5, 2011, 9:41 pm
#68
Join Date: Jun 2010
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+1
There's no question you can encounter rude or unfriendly border agents at just about any crossing, but the ratio seems highest coming into Canada. US agents are often friendly, though I always wait to gauge their mood before joking myself.
The nicest surprise at any crossing was entering Taiwan last year. After the usual checking, typing and stamping, the agent looked up, smiled and said "Happy Birthday!"
There's no question you can encounter rude or unfriendly border agents at just about any crossing, but the ratio seems highest coming into Canada. US agents are often friendly, though I always wait to gauge their mood before joking myself.
The nicest surprise at any crossing was entering Taiwan last year. After the usual checking, typing and stamping, the agent looked up, smiled and said "Happy Birthday!"
Feb 5, 2011, 11:22 pm
#69
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Over the past 10 years during my air travel I haven't had a problem with either Canadian or US agents, however the US ones tend to be more pleasant and friendly. I find if you engage them in a friendly greeting and small talk it disarms them. I also go out of my way not to antagonize them, because once your name is in their system you can expect trouble for the rest of your life. I am very wary of big power in the hands of small people (eg. CATSA) and I simply don't trust them.
On the other hand, one of my hobbies is antagonizing CATSA agents
.Canadians as a people are very friendly and personable, so when one runs across a Canadian acting in an impersonal detached manner, it is perceived as rude since it is so out of the ordinary. The officers are trained to act in just this way to make them more effective at their jobs.
Feb 6, 2011, 2:18 am
#70
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
If so, what's so different between Canada and other countries? Because it doesn't seem to happen anywhere else that I know.
And the guy is not a customer service rep, but he is a public servant, whose salary is paid by your taxes and mine. And as a public servant, he should show respect for others. I also have some power in my job, and that doesn't mean that I can abuse it in any way it pleases me.
And the guy is not a customer service rep, but he is a public servant, whose salary is paid by your taxes and mine. And as a public servant, he should show respect for others. I also have some power in my job, and that doesn't mean that I can abuse it in any way it pleases me.
according to your words, what you want is him/her not asking you any questions and allow you to bring anything u want into this country. They are not paid to be nice to people, they are there to ask a few simple questions and if your answer raises a flag they will question further, simple.
other countries ask less because they have intelligence gathering behind the scenes, which may be ruled unconstitutional in certain western societies. hate to say, i equally get questioned in Auzzieland, NZ, UK, US........ that's part of their job
like others have said, in many countries there are immigration + customs officers. In US/Canada they are all combined into customs officer...... i can tell u from experience, if you are secondaried to meet a real "customs" officer in another country, you are treated in a similar manner......
perhaps you did get a "not as friendly officer" but does not mean he/she is rude...... and abuse of power is when they make threats and make falsified rules to you, verbally abused or bullied you......tough interrogation/questioning along with an impersonal attitude does not necessarily constitute rude or an abuse of power
be specific with what the matter is and stop making generalized comments. you see i'm not being rude but confrontational to get the facts, if i was rude, i'd say otherwise
in a nutshell, there are friendlier officers and less friendlier officers...... but to make allegations of them rude and abusive in power, those are very serious words and you better have detailed descriptions to back them up and not vague words or assumptions!
Last edited by global happy traveller; Feb 6, 2011 at 2:52 am
Feb 6, 2011, 12:34 pm
#71
Join Date: Jun 2009
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what do u mean by respect... you mention rude, abuse of power and respect, what exactly was the problem........ you are still not answering the root of the problem......... what did the person did to you to offend you, tell us and perhaps we may understand and appreciate your position better?
Feb 6, 2011, 1:03 pm
#72
Join Date: Jan 2005
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good....bad....subjective.....objective......
my experiences would say that it is as much agent dependent as anything else. I love flying back to the Canada and being given a welcome home (now that I use Nexus, the most I I hope for is the machine spits out the documents without telling me to move back/forward to capture my retinal scan). Often, I do not get that greeting. Same goes for when I enter the US (where I reside).
I would say my re-entries to Canada have been perfunctory. Not friendly, but definitely not hostile!
Two incidences stick out in my mind as being longer than my typical pass. One time I admitted to accidentally locking my passport in my checked luggage (in the 90s and I had used my DL as ID) and being subjected to some questions to test my knowledge of Canada (name the PMs, and premiers, what city I was born in, high school attended, type of hs I attended...) In all, 5-10 minutes. Nothing to sweat about. This was rivalled by another time when I had excess items coming home. Agent asked me what I had and where I bought them. She jotted down the info, more for her sake for she was going there that year, than to levy any duties. Despite the length of time, both welcomed me home!
Least friendly interrogations were in IAD, EWR, LAX and my last visit to Australia. The agents I have had at EWR can be downright abrasive! The others asked questions beyond my normal expectation.
Friendliest agents I had were in Vietnam and Cambodia, where both times the agents chatted with me and wanted to know a bit of my ancestral history.
my experiences would say that it is as much agent dependent as anything else. I love flying back to the Canada and being given a welcome home (now that I use Nexus, the most I I hope for is the machine spits out the documents without telling me to move back/forward to capture my retinal scan). Often, I do not get that greeting. Same goes for when I enter the US (where I reside).
I would say my re-entries to Canada have been perfunctory. Not friendly, but definitely not hostile!
Two incidences stick out in my mind as being longer than my typical pass. One time I admitted to accidentally locking my passport in my checked luggage (in the 90s and I had used my DL as ID) and being subjected to some questions to test my knowledge of Canada (name the PMs, and premiers, what city I was born in, high school attended, type of hs I attended...) In all, 5-10 minutes. Nothing to sweat about. This was rivalled by another time when I had excess items coming home. Agent asked me what I had and where I bought them. She jotted down the info, more for her sake for she was going there that year, than to levy any duties. Despite the length of time, both welcomed me home!
Least friendly interrogations were in IAD, EWR, LAX and my last visit to Australia. The agents I have had at EWR can be downright abrasive! The others asked questions beyond my normal expectation.
Friendliest agents I had were in Vietnam and Cambodia, where both times the agents chatted with me and wanted to know a bit of my ancestral history.
Feb 6, 2011, 1:42 pm
#73
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13F
Feb 6, 2011, 2:43 pm
#74
Join Date: Aug 2003
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US Homeland Security hired many new US Customs officers and they feel a need to justify the expense so there is more thorough tracking and questions.
Canada was a poor immigration access point and many Al Quida cells penetrated due to lax tacking. US subsidized Canada to improve border entry points in exchange for Canada's Iraq support.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US.
Canada was a poor immigration access point and many Al Quida cells penetrated due to lax tacking. US subsidized Canada to improve border entry points in exchange for Canada's Iraq support.
Now Canada is meeting the new border expectations due to subsidized US money and everyone is getting hassled going into Canada and US.
Clearing in Calgary. When I went through last month the guy just looked at my card and passport and let me through. The previous 3 times. I got the questions. Where are you going? What is the purpose of your visit? How long are you staying? Where are you staying? Are you bringing anything into the US?...etc
Feb 6, 2011, 3:00 pm
#75
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what do u mean by respect... you mention rude, abuse of power and respect, what exactly was the problem........ you are still not answering the root of the problem......... what did the person did to you to offend you, tell us and perhaps we may understand and appreciate your position better?