If you guys are in Vegas you should simply drive around Utah for a while. Great sights and stuff. Why don't you simply find some organized self drives online and see what they use for a route? You need to decide what you want... Party/Rest and have some of the sights or really see the stuff worth seeing.

LV is actually better partying off weekends. On Monday/Tuesday the natives go out to play. You want to find out where they party (for obvious reasons...). That changes so I can't help you but it is not on the strip. All those hot girls don't have a lot of money and they do not party at the Wynn etc. They party way, way, way off strip and trust me: finding out where is worth it... ;) If you meet them on the strip they will just drink your wallet dry, most likely because they are paid to do so... CT-UK's suggestion will be cheaper indeed.

You are spending way too much time in and around LA. The great rate at the Hyatt Huntington Beach is not worth it. It is not a great place either. You are better of driving out to La Jolla or elsewhere and stay in a motel 6. Hotels are not important.

Mrs Redshift27 and I are off to do pretty much the same this Sept. BA F to LAX and back from SFO. I am working 3 days in Downtown LA so she will sightsee LA on her own, no car. Probably take a Hollywood / LA tour one day and go to the Getty Museum another. We are Gehry fans so crawling round the Walt Disney Concert Hall is a must. The Queen Mary at Long Beach sounds an interesting option. Then it is an evening flight to Monterey for two nights, drive the Big Sur, then drive to Yosemite for three nights. Yosemite is so amazing that giving it any less seemed wrong. SF gets allotted an afternoon, evening and a morning! I need to decide how best to structure that.

No car? That's just outright cruel in LA!!

:)

Some thoughts and (too?) strongly-held opinions based on a lot of experience living and traveling around California and the southwest...

Skip the Grand Canyon. Sure, it's gorgeous, but it's a major schlep from Las Vegas, it will be inundated with tourists in August, and the time could be better spent in other national parks, if that's important, more conveniently. Visiting the Grand Canyon in a day by car entails 5+ hours drive, a couple of hours there, then 5+ back. It's a very long day, through scenery that for the most part isn't all that inspiring... twice.

I'd also nix the Death Valley and Tioga Pass/Yosemite plan. Death Valley is fascinating for sure, but the places you really want to see are simply not readily accessible in August for drive-bys. The bigger problem IMO is that the drive from LV to the east side of DVNP is not terribly long, but the distances within the park are great, and the drive out of the park to anything resembling a decent place to stop is really, really long, hot, and boring. Getting a convertible is also pretty pointless in that part of California - you will be fried and will resemble fish suppers, or maybe lobsters with migraines, after an hour in that sun. Or worse... believe me, as one whose father grew up in DV (granddad worked at a borax mine)... they don't call it Death Valley for nothing.

(Regarding the convertible, be careful. Luggage space in convertibles is extremely limited, once the top is down. I can't think of any US ragtops that will accommodate four persons and luggage. You might make this a little project in the meantime, and also know that one-way rentals for convertibles are very hard to arrange. Not saying impossible, just tough and very pricey. You might think about getting a SUV with a sunroof; the higher seating position would also help given your plans - you'd see out better. Or, that said, maybe you should think about two different cars - a convertible for your time in the LA area, then something with a lid for the desert.)

As for Yosemite in August, it's lovely. You will be surrounded by fifteen thousand of your closest friends, many of them children, screaming. Bleh.

Going the Death Valley/Yosemite route also eliminates the possibility of the coast road; IMO this is not a good exchange in August.

Anyway, if not the Grand Canyon or Death Valley, then what?

Simple - Joshua Tree NP and Palm Springs, then out to the coast either at San Diego/La Jolla or straight to Huntington Beach. Joshua Tree is gorgeous, a little higher in altitude than Death Valley so slightly cooler (an academic distinction - still hot as hell) but has the distinct advantage of being an hour from Palm Springs, where there are numerous cool hotels, a casino, good restaurants, and things to do. Stunning scenery in Joshua Tree (and PS isn't shabby itself) but not so far out of your way. You can easily spend a day, or part of a day at JTNP, and be poolside by nightfall. Accommodations in PS tend to be quite affordable in the summer, too. To get there from LV, head south on US 95 through Laughlin (famous low-roller and biker gambling mecca) to Lake Havasu City, home of the relocated London Bridge, then connect to I-10 near Blythe, then west. Easy and actually more interesting than some other desert drives.

As for Huntington Beach, I disagree with those who say skip it. The Hyatt is a very nice property, the shoreline area of "downtown" HB is very active and hopping, the surf is great, and it's very close to lots of things to see and do in Newport and Balboa. Laguna is 30-45 min. down the road, so easily visited in a morning/afternoon; you should also visit "Little Balboa" (the island at the foot of Jamboree Road) but be warned, you will want to buy a house and move there.

Regarding the drive from LA to SF up the coast, it really needs two days, with an overnight somewhere around the Hearst Castle at San Simeon. You should also have an overpriced (but good) burger at Nepenthe in Big Sur (assuming the road is fixed by August) and enjoy the company of the ghosts of Orson Welles and Rita Hayworth and Richard Burton and (RIP) Elizabeth Taylor.

In SF, if you still have time on your hands, instead of a day trip to Yosemite I'd think about a day in the Redwoods - either the Big Basin groves down near Santa Cruz, or else the Muir Woods in Marin County (both around an hour from the city - Big Basin maybe 2.) Yosemite is beautiful but you can be in beautiful mountain country in many places in Europe. The Redwoods... nope. Not to be missed IMO. You can combine Muir Woods with a day on Highway 1 north of SF - which I think is equally as gorgeous as the San Simeon/Big Sur part, but way more accessible. Now that is convertible country.

1- If you'd like to go river rafting I can contact my "contacts" and find you a spot, but it is way up north, towards the Oregon border, ok a bit south of that.

2- Vegas... great Socal chick party town.. you want to go native, I can again "contact my contacts" and get you names of where the USC chicks go.

You guys are young... so go and have fun.. But please please and please be very very careful with the drinking and driving. The slammer ain't fun.

Not that I experienced it. Always got a driver when we were planning on drinking. Safe.

I'd rule out option 4 just because PCH is such an excellent and distinctly Californian experience. I'd also stay overnight on that trip in Big Sur to see some of the state parks (Julia Pfeiffer Burns and Point Lobos are really good). Glen Oaks Motor Lodge is a really well-designed cool little hotel for a reasonable cost.

Between 1/2/3, I'd probably choose #2 because I prefer the northbound PCH trip. The scenery sort of surprises you and it is truly breathtaking once you get past Hearst castle. Also, as long as you leave Yosemite by 3-5pm you will get back to LA at a reasonable hour and miss evening traffic.

As a native Californian who grew up also spending time on Arizona desert land ranches, having a convertible in August in the Mohave desert is, well, a waste.

You will have the top up with the AC on anyway most of the time. You could put it down at night, but not during the day. The sun is deadly. Literally.

Driving for hours in desert sun with temps reaching 120 degrees all day in August could be really dangerous. Natives know to do the driving to Las Vegas or other long distance desert areas by leaving LA in the evening if possible and driving the long distances after the sun has set.

Sandy desert ground doesn't hold heat the way dirt does, so it can cool down quite a bit at night. Night driving is not always possible in a busy holiday sked, but the locals know that's the way you do it if you can.

People die out there. Alot. Folks there respect the desert. They know what can happen to you there if you don't. If your car should break down, due to the distances, it could take a long time for highway patrol or other rescues to get to you. And standing in 110-120 degrees for hours waiting, well, it's not healthy. You don't want to mar your trip with somebody getting sunstroke.

And a word about Huntington Beach---do you surf? If so, then Huntington is the place to go. The surf's up most of the time. (Very early mornings...best waves, as the surfers know. We used to drive down there at day break in high school to get an hour or so in surfing as the tide came in before school.) But then I grew up a lot of the time in Balboa, so I'm probably not neutral! :))

Water is cold, too. It doesn't match the balmy CA weather. For some reason it always seemed danged cold year round (ergo you see surfers in wet suits.)

I also put in a vote for the Queen Mary. If you are British, it's an important part of the history. They've preserved most of the the ship in its original art deco style. Coming on board is like stepping back 70 years immediately.

Including the rooms that still have all the original rare (some woods now extinct) furniture fittings from the 30s, all the old taps from the 30s that say "sea water" and things like that. On a private tour when it first opened we were shown into the suite that the Queen used on her trips. As far as I know that's been preserved too. Just as it was when she last, if ever, used it. Not that posh really. Twins beds. Moderately sized loo with toilet and bidet. My crazy friend whispered she was going to run over and sit on Queen's Loo just to say she'd sat on the same loo as the Queen. In the end she lost her nerve thankfully.

Take the paranormal tour on the QM. It's not just kitschy. It's the most "haunted" ship ever, apparently. A couple of people who study it conduct the tours and it's interesting. It will scare the living daylights out of you, if you have some experiences while on the tour. And they don't tell you much about what you might hear or "see" ahead of time either, sometimes things just happen while you are there, so it's not the power of suggestion necessarily.

One of the things they do tell you before taking you into the pool area is that many many people have seen and heard a little girl running around the pool area laughing. And more than a few folks have seen child's wet foot prints all over the place down there. (The pool is empty and closed.)

Another thing folks have said they hear are the screams of men crying for help when they go deep down inside the area of the ship at the bow that rammed through a naval ship during WWII and split it in half. The first to hear this evidently were workmen who repaired the gash in the QM when it was put into dock after the incident. And subsequent people working down there have also reported hearing it (even if they'd never heard of the incident prior.) So it's pretty interesting.

So, many on the tour do hear, feel or see things. I've done the tour--about four years ago. Had one freaky experience as did a friend who was with me. And we are NOT "believers!"

I only did the tour because one of the guides was a friend of one of my friends who produces documentaries and he was working on one about the loads of paranormal experiences people had been having through the years. He suggested it would be an interesting thing to do and it was.

But perhaps not interesting to four energetic young men. They probably are after different experiences that near the beach. :D And if your four gents happen to be gay, the Long Beach gay scene downtown very near the Queen Mary is quite active and there are alot of clubs and nice places to hang out.

But if straight, also plenty of "California girls" in the same areas, though better if you motor down Ocean Boulevard to the "Belmont Shore" area, about 15 minutes away and roam around the wide, white sandy beach there to scope the bikini action where the locals go. There is also a HUGE university in Long Beach, so no shortage of college girls there either who use that beach.

And i second the earlier poster who said do NOT drink and drive in California. They are NOT amused there and you go straight to jail, few exceptions. (If you read the tabloids, you will note the number of celebs who are picked up on DUI's constantly. It's not a coincidence, it happens to everybody.) They have a zero tolerance for it there. It would be a shame for that to ruin your great trip.

p.s. As an aside, just wondering why UCLA (girls?) is to be avoided at all costs but USC not? Locals have their own prejudices about it (usually involving football) but wondering why someone said that? When I was college age, the rule was if your dad was rich and you were just average academically at best, you went to USC. If you were very academically talented and too poor to afford university otherwise, you went to UCLA.

Please remember that native Californians have a very narrow comfort zone. They find anything below 80 or above 100 degrees (F) to be immediately life threatening. ;) Unless you are unbelievably stupid and expose your milky white skin to the full blast of the sun without any protection whatsoever, don't cary water and don't make regular stops at watering holes you have nothing to fear. However, alcohol dehydrates so don't use beer for refreshments.

I have done this trip with my (then) 68 year old mother in September and she loved it. No complaints about the heat whatsoever. Quite the contrary. I have done the drive from LV to GC and it is a beautiful drive. As said, I would not return by car or I would continue on through Arizona and make my way back to LA that way. More desert, but also the already mentioned Joshua Tree Natl Park!

Now that's not fair - we can go as low as 60 without declaring an emergency. *

I grew up in LA and the steady weather is part of why I left. It's just wrong for it to be sunny and 70+ on Christmas Day, unless you live in Oz. We didn't get changing leaves in autumn, they just choked on the smog and fell off.

Be aware that San Francisco can actually be rather cool in the summer. There's been times when it's been about 100 down here in San Jose and I've gone up to the city to cool off, as it was about 65 up there. SF actually got snow a few weeks ago.


* actually, very cold weather does lead to a state of emergency. A sizeable portion of the country's produce is grown in the central valley and freezing weather can kill it, especially oranges

p.s. yes, I'm perfectly comfortable with metric and temperatures in C, but I can't do all the work for you. :D

Interesting! Some conflicting advice above from Gordyloo, what do you guys think?

At this point, I really do believe that one of the 4 options I listed in my previous post for an itinerary post Vegas is the way to go forward. I have never seen the GC, have always wanted to visit Yosemite, and some of you have really rated the drive up.

That being said the heat is a concern, and even though we will be packed fairly light we will cutting it fine space wise so perhaps an SUV is something to consider. We would love a convertible for PCH and the drive to Vegas, although the cost and effort to change cars might not be worth it so this is something I will have to consider.

Glad to hear that the drive back from Yosemite would not be so painful, two of us at least will be driving so few stops needed, we will spend the day there and drive back late afternoon. JT park sounds nice, although I think that would need to be a dedicated trip... or could we include it en route to Las Vegas if we leave early enoough in the day? -I actually have this vision of arriving in LV at night.

I am thinking Fri-Mon in LV, drive to the GC on Mon, stay over and drive up to Yosemite the following day where we will have 2 nights there before driving back to LA on the Thurs, where we will spend 2 nights before heading upto SFO via PCH(1 night on PCH, 2 in SFO). Might consider pulling LV forward or cutting it a day less to give us another day in LA or SFO. I am happy that 1 night along PCH will be enough, we will have soaked up the beach town culture in Orange County albeit maybe not as picturesque. What do you think of this?

I am surprised that Palms has been mentioned, I understand it to be very hot there. We have the offer of a friends empty holiday home there although they warned us the heat will limit us to indoors and that the place is very quiet in Aug. so we have been put off the idea.

I know some of you must think we have too much time in LA. We have friends and family there who I want to spend some time with, and I do believe the city has alot to offer for what we are looking for from it; Beach, Party, Theme Parks, In-n-Out. When I say LA I also throw Orange County and a day to San Diego under that title.

Thanks again for all this great advice here.

And i second the earlier poster who said do NOT drink and drive in California. They are NOT amused there and you go straight to jail, few exceptions. (If you read the tabloids, you will note the number of celebs who are picked up on DUI's constantly. It's not a coincidence, it happens to everybody.) They have a zero tolerance for it there. It would be a shame for that to ruin your great trip.
You might think that you can outsmart the CHP, but they know ALL the tricks, so please please and please, if you are going to drink, have a designated driver. All you need to get pulled over is change lanes a few times, and they have their lights out.
p.s. As an aside, just wondering why UCLA (girls?) is to be avoided at all costs but USC not? Locals have their own prejudices about it (usually involving football) but wondering why someone said that? When I was college age, the rule was if your dad was rich and you were just average academically at best, you went to USC. If you were very academically talented and too poor to afford university otherwise, you went to UCLA.[/QUOTE]

I never said Bruin girls are to be avoided, but then I am not sure that they'd like to hang out with the likes of the recent Youtube rambler. I would hope that the boys like girls who are a bit more intelligent. Case closed :D:D. And talking about academia, this is what UCLA's PR machine have tried to brainwash the community with :p. And yes we do beat the daylight out of the bruins in football and allow them to play in our backyard.:D:D.


We have always wondered why the Europeans like to drive through the desert in the middle of summer, can never understand it. And as an added thing, the adage "the coldest winter that I spent was the summer in SF" is very true. SF is cold in the summer.

Have fun boys.

pazza2000,

There have been some great replies on this thread, so it's difficult to know how much more to contribute.

So instead I'll agree with some others here who have suggested you have not given yourself enough time in Northern California.

There's a lot of great things to be done around the San Francisco area. Personally I enjoyed my time there a lot more than Los Angeles last time I was in that part of the world. Just don't dump your car too soon, many things require a drive.

So, when is the best time to visit San Francisco and surrounding areas?
Looking to set up a 241 between September and June 12.



I never said Bruin girls are to be avoided, but then I am not sure that they'd like to hang out with the likes of the recent Youtube rambler. I would hope that the boys like girls who are a bit more intelligent. Case closed :D:D. And talking about academia, this is what UCLA's PR machine have tried to brainwash the community with :p. And yes we do beat the daylight out of the bruins in football and allow them to play in our backyard.:D:D.


We have always wondered why the Europeans like to drive through the desert in the middle of summer, can never understand it. And as an added thing, the adage "the coldest winter that I spent was the summer in SF" is very true. SF is cold in the summer.

Have fun boys.[/QUOTE]

Really not trying to complicate your life; full props for taking the time for a little planning, rather than shooting from the hip and risking disappointment.

It sounds like you're set on the Grand Canyon and Yosemite; fair enough, they're both marvelous places.

So let me throw a little twist into the mixture.

You want to spend some time in LV. Fine. Why not take advantage of the time change and jetlag, and head there right off the bat? Tell the relatives in Downey that you'll be along a little later, then immediately fly to LV on arrival at LAX. The drive (from Downey or anywhere else) is not particularly scenic, and you might very well recover the flying cost by getting a cheaper car deal out of LAS than out of LAX. I just checked a couple of car hire companies for August, and prices ex-LAS are around $200 cheaper for comparable vehicles than ex-LAX. I even saw a Mustang convertible (4 pax, 3 pieces of luggage, so plan on sharing a suitcase for an arm rest in the back) with LAS-SFO as the one way route, 16 days, for a very good price with Dollar Rent a Car, way cheaper than any ragtops ex-LAX.

The point being, LV is a 24 hour place, so if you're 8 hours advanced internally and plan to be awake all night, why not make it purposeful, and hit the Strip in the wee hours? In August it will be cool enough to walk around outdoors (unlike the daytime, when it's pretty doggone hot) and you'll be far from alone (as if) and you can "ease" your way into Pacific Daylight Time.

Then drive to the Grand Canyon, then back west on I-10 to Joshua Tree and Palm Springs (which will be just as hot as Las Vegas or Phoenix, there's really not much difference once it's above 100F/40C) or straight through to Downey. So just reverse the order of things.

Then do HB, then drive up the PCH/SR1 to Monterey, then cut over to Yosemite on SR 152/140. Then you might consider crossing Tioga Pass the other way, and take US 395 up to Lake Tahoe, and approach SF from the east on I-80.

IMO driving all the way back to LA from Yosemite is nonsensical, plus while the drive is not grueling, it's boring as hell. This way, you get both the coast, plus Yosemite, and maybe throw in Lake Tahoe (beautiful, more gambling on the Nevada side if you want) with minimal time penalty.

Hey, Henks, are you sayin' native Californians are heat wimps? :cool:

I grew up there and because we spent so much time in the desert, especially on my uncle's two Arizona ranches doing round ups in extreme heat, we were just always taught to respect 120 degree desert days, that's all.

As for me, I've lived in all sorts of extremes since leaving California after university. The cliche about humidity is true, though. I'd rather be in Palm Springs when it's a 110 (which I have many times) than be where I live now when it's 90+ degrees and 90 percent humidity all summer. Ugh.

I get amused though when visiting California now and when it's gets to 60 in LA people are flapping their hands against their arms crossed over their chests and shivering like they are going to die. That when I've gotten off a plane from a place where it was 15 degrees and the plane had to be de-iced.

And if it gets to 50 there they call out the National Guard due to the humanitarian crisis!