LondonElite

And fun in some of the places he'll have to transit!

miklcct

For the accommodation, according to my record of my trip just ended, is about EUR 10 per night in a hostel, depending on the location, and for the food, EUR 5 to 6 can buy me enough for cooking in the hostel for 1 or 2 days in a supermarket.

I can't afford any luxury so I would like to learn about budget travel.

trooper

I don't see how you can do what you want to do...unless you can get a sponsorship. (Are there sponsored competitors? Are you good enough to get a manufacturer behind you?) If your sport (like mine) does not pay (or does not have prize money YOU are likely to win) then the only option is to work and earn... and be realistic about what competitions you can sensibly get to ! I travel as much as I (realistically) can to events within Australia, in the Asia pacific region and further afield... I made it into the Australian team for the Worlds last year and received a very useful amount of travel assistance.. can you get something like that??? Sorry...but in the final analysis it is a SPORT... it is not a career...and pardon me for saying so ...it is a LUXURY or an indulgence in many ways.... You say you can't afford any luxury, yet you want the luxury of working very little and travelling/competing a lot...

miklcct

I am in the national team but there is no subsidy, etc., for my sport currently even for world championships. If one day we can get - e.g. the top 8 - in the world championship (or top 3 in the Asian championships) things will change. Our team is improving and this is a realistic target.

However, dramatic improvement can only be done with frequent travel to Europe - the sport is simply not developed elsewhere in the world.

I don't say "work very little" - the problem is that the Hong Kong job market only generally offers 7 to 10 days of leave per year, rather than 20 days minimum in Europe. I'm willing to work more on daily-paid jobs (without commitments afterwards), but it is not the norm in my IT industry.

I have only Hong Kong citizenship - unlike the lucky 50000 families who got British citizenship before the handover and can work in the EU freely - and Hong Kong is well-known for earning money and getting rich, but not for developing athletic talent. Notoriously, Hong Kong is also famous for its long working hours - contributing to the fact that sports and leisure activities are uncommon in Hong Kong.

A team member actually suggested this to me - but it is not likely in the near future because

• this means working holiday scheme
• I currently don't have the fund required for that
• I don't know any foreign language which will enable me to find jobs while on working holiday (I only speak Cantonese and English)
  • I completely regret not taking a Swedish course in the university, and there is currently no Swedish language course in Hong Kong apart from the credit-bearing one in the University of Hong Kong
• by 2019, the problems above can't be solved in such a short time
• by 2020, as the World Championship will be held in Hong Kong, it is less useful to stay aboard that year
• 2021 is a realistic target, but it is already a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time in the future, and I don't want to stop practicing for 2 years in total if I have a full-time job

Moreover, as my ultimate goal is to start my own business, before that business is sustainable, I won't have enough fund for frequent expensive flights. The key component for me to start of the business is the open data policy which has been announced and due this year, afterwards I will live in limited funding.

CPMaverick

The best option would be to search for fares from airports within reasonable public transport distance or cheap LCC flights from HKG. For example, SIN, CAN, or KUL. Compared to other cities in SE Asia, HKG is amongst the cheapest for flights to Europe (from what I've seen), so you might not find much there, but it's worth a look.

Thinking outside the box a bit, have you looked into being an air courier? I know there aren't as many opportunities here as there were 15 years ago, but recently I've seen apps and websites pop up offering payment to carry packages on flights. HKG-Europe would seem to be a highly traded route. Or maybe you can bring some products from HKG to resell (consider the legal implications, I don't know them) to offset your trip cost. Try to sell something in your destination country that you bring from HKG.

edsh

I strongly suggest you research working on a cargo ship. You'd get paid and have meals provided.

A quick search shows it takes about 35 days - I'm sure this is faster than hitchhiking, it's legal, and it's safer.

samwise6222

A quick search shows (all roundtrip, in USD):

HKG-HEL: $567 on SU
HKG-CDG: $463 (HKD 3630) on CA
HKG-ATH: $588 on SU
HKG-FCO $508 (HKD 3981) on CA
HKG-ZRH: $624 (HKD 4890) on CX


I really don't know what you are complaining about. No LCCs in Europe will take you that far for cheaper than that.

Meanwhile, you are lucky because you can go to the Panda Sanctuary since it costs peanuts to fly there from Hong Kong. Every time I want to go play with Pandas, I need to spend $2000+ & fly for 16 hours to Chengdu.

UAPremExecflyer

The OP seems to be taking SU SU tickets are cheap - why isn't the plane filling up?

itfcfan

IMO FlyerTalk is the wrong place to ask about a trip like this. If you have the time to take this trip and plan to make the most of the journey, rather than just aiming to get to the destination as quickly as possible, then I'm sure you'll have a great time.

I've travelled between mainland China and the UK wholly by trains / buses / etc twice (once entirely via Russia, the other time mostly through Kazakhstan with a small part of Russia then Ukraine). I've also travelled between the UK and Egypt multiple times overland (before the war in Syria made this route impossible) and once from the UK to Sierra Leone without flying. I haven't done this kind of travelling for a while, but back then (2005~2010) budgeting for 10USD/day for food and lodging was standard for most mid/lower income countries. The Couchsurfing website became popular in the late 2000s and I think its still a viable way to find a place to stay in places with a scarcity of low budget hotels (e.g. many Russian cities). The Thorntree forum on the Lonely Planet website used to be full of useful information, but its much quieter these days. I don't know if there's a good alternative now.

If you were to aim for Warsaw, that's ~8000km in a straight line from Hong Kong. I think you might just be able to make that for 250EUR.

If I was to attempt the journey you plan, I'd start by getting across to Shenzhen and taking the Z230 train to Urumqi. This train takes 48 hours and will cost 423.50CNY (~52EUR) with a seat or 714.50CNY (~89EUR) in a bed. I'd always opt for the bed, but if your budget it ruling your journey then clearly the seat is the cheapest way. This will take you ~3400km and get you to within ~4800km of Warsaw. If you count optimistically, that's almost half way already! Chinese trains (even the old pre-HSR trains) are a really efficient way of crossing a lot of land!

From Urumqi, the next step is to get across to Kazakhstan. Trains internally within Kazakhstan are relatively cheap (as long as you avoid the faster "Talgo" services). There are direct trains and buses from Urumqi to Almaty in Kazakhstan, but transport crossing international borders often charges a premium. It'd be cheaper to take a bus or train to the border at Yining/Khorgas - a train on this route takes 6~7 hours and costs 81.5CNY (~10EUR) for a seat. From Khorgas, cross the border and take a bus to Almaty - budget another 3000~5000KZT (~10EUR) for this leg of the journey. From Urumqi to Almaty you've travelled another ~800km and you're now within ~4200km of Warsaw.

From Almaty, take a train to a Kazakh city close to Russia. Both Uralsk and Atyrau are good options. The non-Talgo train to Uralsk takes 60 hours and covers 2100km in a straight line (it covers a lot more over land, as the route is not direct). A sleeper ticket on this slower/cheaper service is a real bargin and costs only 6500KZT (~15EUR). Once in Uralsk, you'll be within ~2100km of Warsaw.

From Uralsk, cross the border to the first Russian town of Ozinki. From here you can pick up a train to Moscow via Saratov which should take another 24 hours to cover the 1000km for this route. A ticket for these trains costs 2500RUB (~30EUR) in a basic sleeper. Alternatively, a car-sharing service, BlaBlaCar is popular in Russia. You may find an option to get to Moscow for 1500RUB (~19EUR). Once in Moscow, you'll be within 1100km of Warsaw.

For the last leg from Moscow to Warsaw, I'd suggest looking for a BlaBlaCar or a cheap bus/coach option. You may need to stop off at Minsk or Brest in Belarus to get the cheapest option. For example, I can see BlaBlaCar options to Brest (the border between Belarus and Poland) for 1500RUB (~19EUR). From the Belarus/Polish border take another BlaBlaCar (also popular in Poland) or a coach/bus to Warsaw.

All in all, giving yourself a nights sleep in each of Urumqi, Almaty, Uralsk and Moscow I think you could make the trip in 12~13 days. If you wanted to enjoy the journey, I'd suggest stretching that out to at least ~20 days. The transport for that trip would add up to 130EUR. Clearly, to keep costs down you'd need to be prepared to take a good walk between transport options (e.g. you may need to walk 2~3km crossing the border at Khorgas and Uralsk). Using CouchSurfing or staying at cheap hotels would also keep costs down. You'll get 5~6 nights on sleeper trains so the actual nights you'll need to pay for accommodation in one place will be reduced somewhat. Chinese, Kazakh and Russian trains can all be purchased online using a credit card - I've linked to some websites at the end of the post which accept international credit cards and charge the normal, local price.

Good luck! Do write up something on this thread if you do make the trip! If you make it to London I'd be happy to buy you a drink and hear about how your journey went!!

References:
Great Circle Mapper
https://kyfw.12306.cn/otn/leftTicket/init
https://tickets.kz/en/gd
https://www.tutu.travel/poezda/
https://www.blablacar.ru/

CPMaverick

@itfcfan great write-up! What about visas for these countries? I know it is different depending on your citizenship, but for your situation (UK I presume), were visas needed? That could be a budget-breaker...

itfcfan

You're right, visa costs can add up for this kind of trip. Since visa processing companies took over the process at some major countries, costs have risen. It used to be rare for a visa to cost more than 50USD, but that would be considered not a mid-priced visa these days. When I first travelled to Kazakhstan, it was one of the more complicated visas to get, requiring an invitation letter for many nationalities - it's now visa free for UK citizens. Belarus is also visa free for UK citizens, but only when arriving by air. So for a UK citizen, you'd need visas for China, Russia and Belarus.

Fortunately, HK citizens have very good visa-free coverage across many countries. All of the countries on this route are visa-free for HK citizens, so there should be no additional cost here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_r...s_of_Hong_Kong

UAPremExecflyer

Your proposal is very creative and would make for an adventure ... but it's somewhat unrealistic as I understand from the OP's perspective ... if you read his comments he has very limited time off and wants to do several trips
As my aim is "frequent travel", finding a job will be a problem: unlike you guys in the EU where you have at least 20 days of leave a year, there are only 7 days of leave in Hong Kong - which is only better than the U.S. where there is none. As a result, I wasted a lot of airfare and couldn't participate in all the competitions / conferences / jamborees I would like to.

Catweazle

Now ain't this the beauty of FT, that so much wisdom is shared even on the one thread. I'll try to refrain from repeating what others have said, although much of it is most informative and useful advice.

Looks like itfcfan has summed up your land options in detail. Again, this sort of trip has been done by folks in recent years however the fascinating yet eclectic mix of countries can make things somewhat complex in terms of logistics. It's also worth considering border tensions – some countries are easier to cross into than others. Do be wary of the latest in current affairs (yet remember too that the media as a whole displays a tendency to accentuate certain elements). Don't be discouraged. If anything, be encouraged! Adventures like this can change your life in unexpected ways, guaranteed.

But noting the lack of time you have, the use of public transport on the ground to get from HKG to the EU is not the greatest of options. Two weeks travel time is a minimum stretch at best and some of these countries aren't the most developed in this regard.

So, as others have said, flying from either HKG or another nearby south-east Asian city would be your best bet. The number of low-cost airline options seem to be increasing. Heck, you can get from east-coast Australia to Athens and back again on Scoot for as low as AUD$750 when the sales go nuts. Of course, this may also mean costs associated with positioning for your long-haul flight, perhaps out of SIN, BKK, KUL or Chinese airports. CMB or hubs in India are also good in terms of price, but quite the stretch from HKG in terms of airfares so you'll probably end up paying almost as much to position.

That said, sounds like it's worth considering both your short and long term goals (which you have already highlighted here).

Have dreams, but keep them realistic. I'm not trying to squash your passions but only throwing in my 2¢ based on my own personal experiences which may well be different to yours. I once dreamt of traveling here, there and everywhere and had all the time in the world to do so. But not the financial means. Now I have the financial means, but being a full-time school teacher does not allow me the freedom of time to come and go during school term. And travel prices during school holidays more often come at a premium (although there are ways around this).

What is important to you most of all at this point in your life as well as in the near future? Not only that, but what makes you the unique, wondrous person you are? What fuels you; what moves you in the deepest core of your heart, ignites your passion and drives you through life? Perhaps many things, I'm sure and not everyone has the ability to turn their work into a passion which is why family and hobbies and life outside of work are just as important. In other words, do you see your success as a business man, or a sports person, or a bit of both? You write that the 2021 is miles away and indeed, it is, but at the same time it will be here before you know it. So don't be sacred to give yourself time, be patient and don't worry if everything is not now how you'd like it to be. Start small if you have to, concentrate on your business if you want to, place some stepping stones in front of you and continue from there, day by day, year by year, decade by decade. You've got passions and goals. But some of us – again I write this from personal experience which may or may not be you – some of us may take longer than others to grow, to blossom and to become the people we were made to be.

Alas, I traverse away on a rather cliché tangent. But the real reason I wanted to reply to this thread: you strike me, from what you've written, as someone who has an entrepreneurial side, with the desire to start your own business. Perhaps, you could also start a sports club based on the sport you excel in, to generate interest and get more people involved from your local region. Sure, maybe it only starts with a few friends. But keep at it, spread the news and hey, maybe you can start your own weekly or monthly club in Hong Kong. Encourage people to give it a try, perhaps they'll come to love it like you too? Heck, when I'm next in HKG one day, you can teach me!

Just my thoughts. Excuse the academic length of this post lol

miklcct

I will postpone the above plan for now, because I've just changed job and I will be able to afford Aeroflot flights for weekend trips if booked early enough. However, I still hope that I will be able overland from HKG to Europe sometime in the future via Xinjiang, Kazakhstan, etc., all the way through the "one belt one road" using transports for the working class. Saving money is one goal, but experiencing local culture is also a goal.

Catweazle

You know, the overland HKG–EU trip would make for an excellent FT doo