Sixth Freedom

Nonsense. This is only true to a point. I would refuse to take a man on a date because that prospect has no appeal to me. On the other hand I will happily take a woman out on a date and go out with the boys another time for some refreshments and banter.

I have now established that a difference exists. Now the difficult bit is to find the dividing line between what I believe is the right amount of different treatment for different sexes.

bealine

You can "personally" believe what you want, but we'll have to disagree on that one. It is all to do with British tradition and upbringing. It's strange but you can't beat something out of someone when it was drummed into one with cane, ruler and slipper 50 odd years ago - and in any case, this "sexism" excuse is just an excuse for lazy, ill-mannered chaps to keep the Daily Telegraph up in front of their faces so that they don't have to make eye contact with a standing lady!

There are sound reasons for old fashioned courtesies, one being that it would be impolite to ask every standing woman "Excuse me, but are you pregnant, or are you having period pains which may cause you to feel faint?" before offering a seat.

The offering of a seat by a gentleman should be automatic, thereby saving the lady any embarrassment.

...........but then, you see, that's the essential difference between a man and a gentleman!

LTN Phobia

While I'm quite independent and I can quite happily stand up for myself but I still do like the old fashioned gentlemanly behaviour, such as opening the door for ladies, 'ladies first', etc etc.

Sixth Freedom

I have yet to meet a woman who does not appreciate this. Even the hardened feminist types from the Gender Institute I encountered at university were very happy when I held the door for them. It just seems to be the right thing to do.

Sixth Freedom

I never realised this. Not that I ever looked for a reason of course. But now the reason for the courtesy seems obvious.

Out of interest, and at the risk of going way OT, what are the other reasons?

YuropFlyer

If woman wants equality, who don't they serve in the army? (In those countries that it is mandatory only, of course)

heckenhocker

I was also brought up with door-opening and seat-giving-up (but being female, training was on identifying those less able to stand than myself = older/injured/disabled people both genders, plus pregnant women). I don't expect men to offer me this courtesy, but accept gracefully when it is offered.

However I do wish some women were less strident in their views...and it's not automatic that a man should stand in my view.

- if you don't want to sit down, decline politely. No need to make a scene if you object to a courtesy.

- and a special hello to the woman on the Kings Cross to Hitchin train in 2007 who shouted at my husband to give up his seat (he was mid cancer treatments and exhausted, I was standing)! She wondered aloud to the carriage if she could find a seat as her feet were sore. Then stared at sleeping hubby, shook his shoulder and demanded if he had no manners.... I can only imagine she'd had some of Petrus' grump-making sleeping pills that day!

redshift27

I am sure footsore-shouter will be along to join this thread any minute.

heckenhocker

along with annoyed-at-laughing questioning all the noise I'm making due to insane giggling at this thread

heckenhocker

Some I can think of:
- traditionally women were regarded as the weaker gender
- way way back, women's clothing was more cumbersome....you'd NEED the door held open to get through wearing a bustle/wide skirt thing
- I vaguely recall something military about ensuring men have something to defend. If women are equals, it's harder to gee the men up to defend against the dreadful deeds the "baddies" are planning.

Not saying these ideas are true...just guessing / remembering vaguely read information!

LTN Phobia

Same here.

I agree. There is no need to rudeness - even if one is treated rudely (which in this case is not, of course), I don't think rudeness is very nice anyway.

That's horrid, and what a sense of entitlement! I don't expect men to offer me their seat, but even if I did, I wouldn't dare demand it. That's very, very rude as far as I am concerned.

bealine

Quirky though it may seem, there are sound reasons behind most of our quaint British customs and manners.

1. Don't talk with your mouth full - as Mr Apple-Cruncher did, you can spray bits of half masticated stuff all over the person to whom you speak. Not nice.

2. Don't put your elbows on the table - they have a tendency to knock things over or slide the tablecloth, sending things cascading to the floor.

3. Don't walk down the street eating or drinking - the possibility of dropping a stray, slippery bit of food or slopping hot liquid to cause injury to a passer-by is likely.

4. Keep your hands out of your pockets - apart from making the person appear as a lazy slacker, the person to whom you speak can see both hands in the open so there is no threat of a weapon being suddenly drawn. Among males, there is also the rfisk of people misinterpretng what you are doing!

5. If you wear your jacket buttoned, leave the lower button undone so that your sword may be readily drawn to protect your lady. For this reason, you should walk on the left hand side of your lady so that your right hand may easily grab your weapon.

bealine

Quite!

LaydeeSarah

I object to this IF done for reasons of gender. I hold the door open for people coming the other way and believe it is polite, but I work with a lot of individuals who will do this for women but not for men. I'd never snap at anyone who held the door open for me, that would be rude, but I would hope that they were doing it out of politeness and not because of some old fashioned belief that courtesy only extends to the 'weaker' sex.

IAMORGAN

Maybe I'm too modern, but I certainly don't offer my seat to WOMEN specifically. If on a train for instance, if there is a person who clearly needs it more than me, then I will discreetly offer it. I would always hold a door open for a person whether they were male or female, and see no difference here. If I see a person struggling with a heavy bag up some stairs, and I feel more able than them to get the bag up the stairs, then I will offer to carry it -i.e. at Birmingham International railway station (for the NEC and Airport), people often don't notice the lifts until they're on the stairs -the number of bags I've carried up those stairs!!

I really don't see why women should be treated differently in terms of a seat. They are capable of standing up, so am I. If I got to a seat on a train first, then why should I give it up? Women aren't some weak or endagered species!

OT -but one thing that really annoys me is parent & child car parking spaces! I don't know why there is a sudden obsession these days with "I have CHILDREN". I don't object necessarily to a bigger parking space for buggies, but I do object to them being close to the shops. Having children is not a disability.

But then I'm just a white, middle-class male and therefore anything I say must be wrong because of my inherent prejudices.