Weather delays this week

Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:25 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Icarusian
Hello from Bournemouth. I'm on the diverted BA8087 from DUB. Apparently due to BAA ground staff incompetence at LGW, an incorrect de-icer mixture was sprayed on the runway at LGW, causing it to freeze. LGW is closed until 2115 at the earliest. Many flights diverted to Bournemouth. We were apparently the second.

Update at 2115: latest from the captain is that the runway will reopen at 2200. Update from the crew is that it's the 3rd time in 2 months that the same de-icer issue has occured at LGW.
Icarusian - I wouldn't say the BAA are necessarily to blame on this occasion. The weather at LGW is horrendous to say the least. There are blizzard type conditions and even the M23 was only just drivable when I left. Numerous cars had stopped as it was almost impossible to see through the blizzard. I'm one of the first to blame the BAA but on this occasion it's simply the weather is too bad.

I hope you get back soon and good luck for tomorrow.
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:30 pm
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Is this the wrong type of snow again? I have clients that can clear an LGW sized runway of snow in 8 minutes. It is an impressive operation to watch.

Perhaps this is another case of UK lack of preparation because the cost-benefit analysis to the airport does not stack up. Pity about the airline costs and the costs to the passengers.

I wish you all a well de/anti-iced aircraft and a wet but not slippery runway in the next couple of days. If the BA aircraft looks like it is covered in that green slime that covers aircraft that have been left in Nigeria for too long, you are good to go! (Note, does not apply in LOS)
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:35 pm
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don't know who your clients are, but landing in HEL last week to see a veritable army of snow ploughs ready, and then carrying out another runway sweep as soon as we cleared was pretty impressive
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:42 pm
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Updated at 9:20 PM GMT on February 01, 2009 (9:20 PM GMT):
TAF EGLL 011658Z 0118/0224 07015KT 9999 SCT030
TEMPO 0118/0213 3000 SHSN PROB40
TEMPO 0118/0213 07018G28KT BKN010 PROB30
TEMPO 0119/0213 0400 +SHSN BKN007CB
BECMG 0213/0216 1500 SN
BKN007 PROB40 0215/0221 0200 +SN
BKN000
BECMG 0221/0224 19010KT 6000 RASN BKN010=

If I understand correctly, then 19.00 today - 13.00 tomorrow = snow showers, visibility 400

then becoming snow + 1500 visibility.

Out of curiosity, how is snow creating more visibility than snow showers?
And at what point of visibility is it not permitted to fly (or is it airline / pilot judgement?)
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:46 pm
  #65  
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Ouch

Sun 1 February 2009
17:40 EZY8556 GENEVA EXPECTED 2110 North Terminal
18:50 EZY5478 MADRID DIVERTED South Terminal
19:00 EZY5296 MILAN-MALPENSA DIVERTED South Terminal
19:10 BA2865 PAPHOS DELAYED North Terminal
19:10 BE918 GUERNSEY CANCELLED South Terminal
19:10 EZY5417 BERLIN DIVERTED South Terminal
19:25 BE467 NEWCASTLE DIVERTED South Terminal
19:25 WOW110 PLYMOUTH VIA NEWQUAY CANCELLED North Terminal
19:30 BA2467 MADRID DELAYED North Terminal
19:40 BA2755 ZURICH DELAYED North Terminal
19:40 EZS8575 GENEVA CANCELLED North Terminal
19:45 SK4623 BERGEN DIVERTED South Terminal
19:45 TP332 PORTO DIVERTED South Terminal
19:50 BA8087 DUBLIN DELAYED North Terminal
19:50 JP450 LJUBLJANA DIVERTED North Terminal
20:00 DY1342 STAVANGER DIVERTED South Terminal
20:00 FR5568 ALICANTE DIVERTED South Terminal
20:00 QI265 BILLUND DIVERTED South Terminal
20:00 TCX475L TOULOUSE DIVERTED South Terminal
20:10 BA2495 GIBRALTAR EXPECTED 2351 North Terminal
20:15 EI248 DUBLIN CANCELLED South Terminal
20:15 EZY738 BELFAST DIVERTED South Terminal
20:15 FR1126 DUBLIN CANCELLED South Terminal
20:15 MON4715 TURIN EXPECTED 2145 South Terminal
20:25 BD7920 LIVERPOOL EXPECTED 2110 South Terminal
20:35 FR118 DUBLIN CANCELLED South Terminal
20:50 TCX473L PAPHOS CANCELLED South Terminal
21:05 BA2579 TURIN DELAYED North Terminal
21:15 FR1184 SHANNON CANCELLED South Terminal
21:20 EZY8852 SHARM EL SHEIKH EXPECTED 2206 North Terminal
21:20 MON4279 SHARM EL SHEIKH DIVERTED South Terminal
21:20 TOM576 SHARM EL SHEIKH EXPECTED 2139 North Terminal
21:25 EZY8906 GIBRALTAR EXPECTED 2208 North Terminal
21:30 GR608 GUERNSEY South Terminal
21:35 BA2943 EDINBURGH EXPECTED 2200 North Terminal
21:40 BA8089 DUBLIN DUE MON 0006 North Terminal
21:40 EZY5366 COPENHAGEN EXPECTED 2156 South Terminal
21:40 EZY8968 HELSINKI EXPECTED 2125 North Terminal
21:45 BA2687 ANTALYA DELAYED North Terminal
21:45 EZY8882 AMSTERDAM CANCELLED North Terminal
21:55 BA2491 BARCELONA EXPECTED 2208 North Terminal
21:55 EZY5154 VALENCIA EXPECTED 2207 South Terminal
21:55 EZY5446 BUDAPEST EXPECTED 2209 South Terminal
21:55 TOM6274 MALAGA EXPECTED 2156 North Terminal
22:00 EZY5376 COLOGNE DUE MON 0005 South Terminal
22:05 EZY8536 BASEL CANCELLED North Terminal
22:05 TCX797L SHARM EL SHEIKH DUE MON 0125 South Terminal
22:10 EZY5006 LYON EXPECTED 2210 South Terminal
22:10 EZY8560 GENEVA EXPECTED 2300 North Terminal
22:15 EZY5458 LISBON EXPECTED 2212 South Terminal
22:15 EZY742 BELFAST DUE MON 0020 South Terminal
22:20 EZY5298 MILAN-MALPENSA EXPECTED 2230 South Terminal
22:20 EZY5480 MADRID EXPECTED 2209 South Terminal
22:20 TOM4774 ARRECIFE EXPECTED 2357 North Terminal
22:25 EZY5072 NICE CANCELLED South Terminal
22:30 EZY5258 ROME EXPECTED 2242 South Terminal
22:30 EZY8948 GRENOBLE CANCELLED North Terminal
22:40 EZY5338 TOULOUSE CANCELLED South Terminal
22:45 EZY8996 PRAGUE North Terminal
22:50 EZY5268 VENICE EXPECTED 2240 South Terminal
22:50 EZY796 GLASGOW CANCELLED South Terminal
22:50 EZY8930 FARO EXPECTED 2244 North Terminal
22:55 EZY714 EDINBURGH CANCELLED South Terminal
22:55 TCX446L ARRECIFE EXPECTED 2318 South Terminal
22:55 TOM7274 KUUSAMO EXPECTED 2244 North Terminal
23:15 EZY8980 SOFIA EXPECTED 2317 North Terminal
23:20 MON4219 KITTILA EXPECTED 2320 South Terminal
23:25 EZY5140 BARCELONA South Terminal
23:25 EZY8706 TENERIFE EXPECTED 2340 North Terminal
23:35 ZB285 TENERIFE EXPECTED 2345 South Terminal
23:45 EZY8748 ATHENS EXPECTED 2345 North Terminal
Mon 2 February 2009
00:05 EZY8614 MALAGA North Terminal
00:10 TCX422L TENERIFE EXPECTED 0028 South Terminal
00:25 EZY8670 ALICANTE EXPECTED 0221 North Terminal
00:35 TOM5084 TENERIFE EXPECTED 0050 North Terminal
00:50 TOM698 SHARM EL SHEIKH EXPECTED 0050 North Terminal
05:30 VS032 ST LUCIA EXPECTED 0450 South
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:50 pm
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Its not good here in LGW, just spoken to a collegues in some major airlines, LGW closed at 2000 till at least midnight, due to snow/fozen runway.

Easyjet could have upto 35 LGW based aircraft out of position for tomorrow morning!

LHR is operating on a single runway currently, and the worst has yet to come, if your flying tomorrow, expect extensive delays, and no compensation!


Cheers
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 2:53 pm
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Originally Posted by sunrisegirl
Icarusian - I wouldn't say the BAA are necessarily to blame on this occasion. The weather at LGW is horrendous to say the least. There are blizzard type conditions and even the M23 was only just drivable when I left. Numerous cars had stopped as it was almost impossible to see through the blizzard. I'm one of the first to blame the BAA but on this occasion it's simply the weather is too bad.

I hope you get back soon and good luck for tomorrow.
Thanks sunrisegirl. Will be interested to find out if the de-icer info is correct.

Incidentally the crew have been wonderful, chatting to us, keeping us watered (and pretzel-nuggeted) and doing their best to respond to requests. The captain has been lovely and has invited any and all children (including some older ones!) to visit the cockpit. The mood is quite good, but I fear for our spirits if things take any negative turns.
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 3:11 pm
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Originally Posted by heckenhocker
don't know who your clients are, but landing in HEL last week to see a veritable army of snow ploughs ready, and then carrying out another runway sweep as soon as we cleared was pretty impressive
I have worked with most of the big airports up at the 60 North end of Europe. Strange how we think that weather cancellations are the trigger for no compensation when there is so much more that we could do in this country, but cannot be bothered to invest in.

I know that LGW is the busiest single runway in the world for IFR operations. However, with winter demand relatively low at the moment, then we should be in delay time and not cancellation time.

The visibility minima for LGW is 75 metres, depending on the airline, crew, aircraft limitations. However, if the runway friction/crosswind is out of limits for autoland, then you are stuffed. It then reverts back to 350 or 550 metres, depending. Also, if the snow is thick, then the lights do not show up through the snow. You get a classic problem with the snow ploughs that throw the snow over one set of edge lights and not the other. You can then get pilots landing well to the side of a ruwnay. Not so much of a problem in this country because of the touchdown zone lighting (those big set of lights in the runway near the start).

One problem with snow ploughs is that if you have metal blades too close to the runway, then they have a habit of pulling up all the inset lights.

The other operating limit that LGW have probably screwed up with the de/anti-icing of the runway is that of the spare runway too. It should have been possible to use that for departures whilst they sorted out the main runway.

I have worked at a few airports that had a jet engine on the back of a truck pointing about 45 degrees downwards as a source of heat to melt the snow/ice. If you consider the fuel burn of that engine, it is tiny in comparison with the fuel burn of the diverting aircraft.
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 3:17 pm
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Update from Bournemouth

Apparently LGW reopen. We're just waiting for the plane in front on the taxiway (which has just gone out of hours to move out of the way and then we'll apparently be off.
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 3:24 pm
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Its snowing like mad again here in Brighton! At least an inch deep now and the roads are completely covered.
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 3:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Icarusian
Apparently LGW reopen. We're just waiting for the plane in front on the taxiway (which has just gone out of hours to move out of the way and then we'll apparently be off.
Glad you'll soon be on your way. BTW, the 8089 after you hasn't left DUB yet>

koksy - it's just started snowing again here, just north of M25, in east Surrey but not too heavy at the moment, though we have about 3-4" of snow already.
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 3:44 pm
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Originally Posted by spotwelder
Perhaps this is another case of UK lack of preparation because the cost-benefit analysis to the airport does not stack up. Pity about the airline costs and the costs to the passengers.
Watch our great 21st century rail system also fall to pieces tomorrow because of a little snow

Not like the dark ages of the 1980's when there was still hundreds of engines throughout the country that could plough snow, one company running trains and track, ho hum
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 4:02 pm
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Absolutely covered here in SE1 right now, and still snowing quite hard. Looks lovely...if you know you're working at home tomorrow with nowhere to have to travel
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 4:04 pm
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Originally Posted by alasdair_m
Watch our great 21st century rail system also fall to pieces tomorrow because of a little snow

Not like the dark ages of the 1980's when there was still hundreds of engines throughout the country that could plough snow, one company running trains and track, ho hum
ha, ha...you must be kidding...I commuted to school by train, and spent many an hour freezing on the platform when the train was late due to snow. That was in the eighties, and children were expected to wait outside while the adults took the tiny waiting room space...sounds fair given we paid 1/2 fare and anyway would run around playing snowballs to keep warm :-)
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Old Feb 1, 2009, 4:14 pm
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Just noticed the BA2491 from BCN landed at T5 instead of LGW. Though thankfully flights are now arriving at LGW again.

Have sympathy for all the passengers affected. And I have to say I don't envy my colleagues on the night shift tonight.
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