New 777-300ERs

Old Aug 20, 08, 6:40 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Usually 2K
Programs: Mucci, BA Premier, EK IO, Amex Centurion, Hilton Diamond, SPG Platinum, IC Ambassador
Posts: 361
New 777-300ERs

During a recent SIN flight, a rather delightful CSD gave me the following insights on the recently ordered 777-300ERs.....

Good News

1. The will be fitted with a new IFE similar (if not identical) to EK's albeit wireless to save weight. Eventually this will be rolled out across the fleet. Panasonic I believe.
2. 34" seat pitch in economy - assume this is more than today?


Bad News

1. It's a 777
2. 3-4-3 seating in economy vs 3-3-3
3. The aircraft will be deployed on BKK, HKG, SIN, SYD and 3rd daily rotation to JNB

More Bad News

1. WTP+ upgrade has been put on hold due to lack of funding

BAPremier
BAPremier is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 6:45 am
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 21,821
Sounds just like flying on EK. 34" pitch (an extra 3, so just the same as CE) put 3-4-3 is brutal.
Swanhunter is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 6:51 am
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 15,293
Originally Posted by BAPremier View Post
During a recent SIN flight, a rather delightful CSD gave me the following insights on the recently ordered 777-300ERs.....

Good News

1. The will be fitted with a new IFE similar (if not identical) to EK's albeit wireless to save weight. Eventually this will be rolled out across the fleet. Panasonic I believe.
2. 34" seat pitch in economy - assume this is more than today?


Bad News

1. It's a 777
2. 3-4-3 seating in economy vs 3-3-3
3. The aircraft will be deployed on BKK, HKG, SIN, SYD and 3rd daily rotation to JNB

More Bad News

1. WTP+ upgrade has been put on hold due to lack of funding

BAPremier
Sorry BAPremier I am sure the CSD ment well, but all they have told you is the gossip going around at work.
There are a couple of things I do agree with however.
The aircraft will be used on some of the routes mentioned and there is a new IFE system.
CIHY
Can I help you is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 6:52 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,715
Originally Posted by Swanhunter View Post
put 3-4-3 is brutal.
Indeed, as is WTP+ upgrade being put on hold...
Well maybe that isn't brutal (bit of a strong word) but big shame considering it is already behind almost any other Premium Economy product I can think of (and before anyone says it, I do not consider UA's Economy Plus as a Premium economy products)
clubman is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:04 am
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, Sydney
Programs: Muccihood de la Rotisserie Doree, BAEC Gold, SAS Eurobonus basic, Ansett Golden Wing :-(
Posts: 3,114
Originally Posted by clubman View Post
Indeed, as is WTP+ upgrade
What's this "WTP+"? Both BA Premier and Clubman use the term, which I think is tautologous.

Perhaps it is what we will call WTP when it is being upgraded, but not all aircraft have the new WTP, as in "Will my flight have WTP or WTP+?".

James
James S is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:04 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL350, seat 0k
Programs: SK*G, BA Silver, Flying Blue, VLM, VT Traveller, PC Platinum, BW Diamond
Posts: 3,544
Normally I wouldnt see how the 777 can be configured as 3-4-3 unless they have some trick new seating no one else has, except a quick search on FT revealed that TG has this (together with a 2-4-2 in Business!!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86065

If the aim was to increase the number of pax then they should have just left the pitch at 32",

Saying that, seat pitch is calculated from the crease of the seat to the back of the seat in front so these new trick seats might actually be like the paper thin ones that AY use (straight out of the same factory as Southern Trains high density carriages i think) in which BA can have the same number of rows of seats but increase the pitch, and everyone is in for a rough time on long haul.

AY badged their new seating under the latest "green fad" rubbish saying that more seats was better for the environment. (mounts soap box) This i totally disagree with because it isnt green at all, the plane still has to fly from A to B whether its full or empty and putting more pax on board with more luggage increases the amount of fuel burnt. The only thing it effects is profitability which most businesses have quickly learnt can be badged under "green". (dismounts soap box)
globalste is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:09 am
  #7  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SE1, London
Posts: 21,821
Originally Posted by globalste View Post
AY badged their new seating under the latest "green fad" rubbish saying that more seats was better for the environment. (mounts soap box) This i totally disagree with because it isnt green at all, the plane still has to fly from A to B whether its full or empty and putting more pax on board with more luggage increases the amount of fuel burnt. The only thing it effects is profitability which most businesses have quickly learnt can be badged under "green". (dismounts soap box)
Not quite. The same amount of fuel will be required for the actual plane, crew etc regardless of pax numbers. So that 'fixed' fuel bill would be spread over more passengers, thus decreasing the total fuel used per passenger. It's probably not an enormous saving, but it isn't complete greenwash either.
Swanhunter is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:31 am
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: MAN and LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC LT Gold, HH Dia, MR LT Plat, IC RA, Kimpton Inner Circle, Amex Plat
Posts: 13,716
Originally Posted by globalste View Post
Normally I wouldnt see how the 777 can be configured as 3-4-3 unless they have some trick new seating no one else has, except a quick search on FT revealed that TG has this (together with a 2-4-2 in Business!!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86065
BA has flown 777's in 3-4-3 config without increased set pitch (i.e. 31 inches only) on the old AML services.

I have flown the TG 777 in C 2-4-2 and it was much better than you might expect, admittedly I only flew BKK-HKT but it was certainly acceptable in the window seat pairs. Let us not forget that BA also has a 2-4-2 layout in longhaul J compared to the typical TG config of 2-2.
Land-of-Miles is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:34 am
  #9  
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 13,978
Originally Posted by globalste View Post
Normally I wouldnt see how the 777 can be configured as 3-4-3 unless they have some trick new seating no one else has, except a quick search on FT revealed that TG has this (together with a 2-4-2 in Business!!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86065
And Emirates, and Air France...

The seats aren't that much narrower, maybe half an inch. The main saving is the reduction of the aisle width.

Cheers,
Rick
DYKWIA is online now  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:39 am
  #10  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Edinburgh UK
Programs: BA Silver, HHonours Gold, Mucci of Pucci, Oyster Card, Nectar Card, Father's Day Card
Posts: 9,372
In terms of an upgrade of WT+ are they talking about abandoning plans for a new seat or for the already announced meals on plates etc
edi-traveller is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 7:44 am
  #11  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: TLV/LHR
Programs: BA GGL, IHG Spire Amb, HH Diamond, Avis PC, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,715
Originally Posted by James S View Post
What's this "WTP+"? Both BA Premier and Clubman use the term, which I think is tautologous.


Actually, it was a typo.
Mine was at least, not sure about BA Premier
clubman is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 8:03 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 59K
Posts: 2,168
Sorry BAPremier I am sure the CSD ment well, but all they have told you is the gossip going around at work.
Sounds like the latest wishful thinking from the 777 pilots to me! BA wont decide where they are sending them until 6 months before at the earliest. IF they are putting 10 abreast down the back, then MIA/LAX/SFO etc would be more logical destinations. No decision on configs is necessary until 1 year before at the earliest, it would be madness in the current climate to firm up now.

I'd also be surprised if it can lift a full load out of Joburg in the summer with LHR fuel. Theres a reason SAA only have 4 engined jets!

Theres only 1 thing less reliable than BA pilot gossip and thats BA cabin crew gossip! Ask an engineer.

Last edited by Jumbodriver; Aug 20, 08 at 8:21 am
Jumbodriver is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 8:33 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, BD Gold, PC Ambassador, SPG Gold
Posts: 4,001
Originally Posted by DYKWIA View Post
The seats aren't that much narrower, maybe half an inch. The main saving is the reduction of the aisle width.
Which is the problem. I believe that BA's standard catering carts are too wide to be used in the aisle width that would be required for 3-4-3 so unless they introduce a dedicated new slimmer cart specifically for a small subfleet of 6 777-300ER's, with all the logistical cost and administration that that would entail, then they may decide that the extra column of seats is not worth having. When they did 3-4-3 before on the bucket-and-spade routes from LGW, I believe it was easier to maintain a specific set of catering carts at a smaller hub like LGW.

I believe this is the seat map for the new Thai 772's with 2-4-2 in C and 3-4-3 in Y.

Whilst bored, and somewhat sad the other day, I had a play around with the seatexpert.com seat maps and tried to fit BA's current products into the 773ER layout. This is what I came up with:

BA potential seat map for B773ER

Maintaining the 3-3-3 seating, this config is 14F, 56J, 48W, 190Y compared to 14F, 52J, 36W, 235Y on the current 52J 747, with about a 22% less fuel burn IIRC. Of course where the divider will be between W and Y is uncertain and by the time these are introduced we should have new F anyway. But it provides a useful comparison on a like-for-like basis with the 747.

Regarding routes, I would think it is highly likely these will go Down Under, this would maximise the fuel savings on these ultra long routes.

Last edited by PhilH; Aug 20, 08 at 8:41 am
PhilH is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 8:34 am
  #14  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, HHonours Diamond, BA AMEX PremPlus
Posts: 5,129
Originally Posted by Jumbodriver View Post
I'd also be surprised if it can lift a full load out of Joburg in the summer with LHR fuel. Theres a reason SAA only have 4 engined jets!
Is there something special about JNB? SIN is a longer sector, yet has a 777 operating on it.

Theres only 1 thing less reliable than BA pilot gossip and thats BA cabin crew gossip! Ask an engineer.
Is engineering gossip any more reliable, then?
Teece is offline  
Old Aug 20, 08, 8:39 am
  #15  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 59K
Posts: 2,168
Is there something special about JNB?
Yes its at 5500ft above sea level. Many long haul twins cant make the engine out climb profile when its hot and theyre heavy.

Is engineering gossip any more reliable
Definately!

Last edited by Jumbodriver; Aug 20, 08 at 9:03 am
Jumbodriver is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread