[17 Jan 2008] BA38 lands short of the runway
Jan 20, 2008, 12:43 am
#706
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,762
To inject some much needed humour into this - all the armchair pontificating will be rendered redundant tomorrow morning as ex LHR flights feature Chicken Stew as the one and only option. Related to I guess, but an improvement upon, the birdseed!
On the topic of which, I think I'll make that (the stew rather than the birdseed) for dinner. Living away from LHR, it's off to the shops I go!
On the topic of which, I think I'll make that (the stew rather than the birdseed) for dinner. Living away from LHR, it's off to the shops I go!
Jan 20, 2008, 1:14 am
#707
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The pilots, it seems to be already a given, did a sterling job in crashing the plane at Heathrow as opposed to at Hatton Cross, maybe this was a bit of luck in a perverse kind of way -who knows at this stage.
For me, what this incident confirms is that the Cabin Service Teams make BA stand out from the crowd; I think that the actions of Sharron Eaton-Merser and her team, in particular, her checking on the flight deck crew after safely evacuating the pax really is a fitting testiment to the quality of the vast majority of BA's crew.
I don't think enough has been said about the passengers in this; they also seemed to act responsibly and luckily didn't seem to panic, which is crucial in any emergency whether it's on a plane or in an earthquake.
Finally, am I put off flying BA? I'd love to say no, but something inside me questions why the incident happened; was it a maintenace oversight? Is there a problem with the software on certain 777s? I will, I'm sure, feel better when AAIB release their full report. Whilst I am normally critical of BAA, the speed of the emergency response seemed pretty quick to me, and the airport didn't resemble as much chaos as I thought it would.
I hope that all involved manage to move on from what must be a traumatic incident and that whatever lessons, if any, need to be learned from the incident, are learnt.
With respect to being put off of BA, I understand your view entirely and to a very small extent of course share it until the results are known, but I guess I conclude that unless we choose to give up air-travel completely in all airlines then there is always going to be a small risk of human error. But I think that the BA response to this proves that whatever turns out to be the cause - even if it were (I'm not, not, NOT NOT speculating) a mommentrary and unusual fault somewhere within BA that overall I'd still prefer to be in their hands when I fly than anyone elses.
I really hope that there is some special recognition of Sharron Eaton-Merser from both within BA and generally. Arguably the "up front" team did a wonderful job and were very skilful, but had to make no choices between their own safety and those of others and whilst skilful it wasn't heroic. But Sharron Eaton-Merser was heroic in the very truest sense of the word.
Last edited by uk1; Jan 20, 2008 at 1:21 am
Jan 20, 2008, 1:45 am
#709
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This was originally posted in another thread but I thought it was more appropriate in this one.
I've been wanting to say this for some time but feared I would be shot down in flames or banned, or possiby both, what with all the back patting going on.
I've read people in this thread talking about being "proud to be British", BA having the "best pilots in the world" etc. etc.
For the same reasons a large proportion of the general public have an irrational fear of flying (i.e. lack of knowledge of aircraft and flying), they have an over glorified sense of achievement when an aircraft crashes and people survive. How many times have we heard that when a plane has crashed somewhere "the pilot was a hero because he steered the aircraft away from a school or houses at the last minute"? This always makes me laugh. You can rest assured that the reason the pilot is trying to avoid houses and schools is because he wants to maximise his own chances of survival.
It is human nature to look for reassurance that when things go wrong, there are "superhumans" or "hero's" sitting at the controls, so that when they next set foot on a plane they feel that little bit safer.
At the end of the day, the pilots were to a large extent passengers as well. At that height, and with that warning, and with apparently no power, there is only one way the aircraft is going and that's down. All they can do is to try and extend the glide for as long as possible until the laws of gravity take over. And that is flying basics number one, and is the same principle in whatever aircraft you are in.
I think if you were to speak to the Captain and First Officer they would be extremely embarrassed to receive all this attention and being hailed as heros, because they know full well that any pilot would have followed exactly the same procedure as they did.
NOW, if you want an example of REALLY heroic flying then this example will make interesting reading. It's the United DC-10 which crashed at Sioux City in July 1989. The pilots turned what was a virtually certain crash with the loss of everybody on-board into one which 185 people survived. In a documentary broadcast on the subject, it was reported that about 30 groups of United DC-10 pilots tried, in the simulator, many months afterwards to replicate the achievements of the original flight crew. Not a single one managed to even make the airport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232
I've been wanting to say this for some time but feared I would be shot down in flames or banned, or possiby both, what with all the back patting going on.
I've read people in this thread talking about being "proud to be British", BA having the "best pilots in the world" etc. etc.
For the same reasons a large proportion of the general public have an irrational fear of flying (i.e. lack of knowledge of aircraft and flying), they have an over glorified sense of achievement when an aircraft crashes and people survive. How many times have we heard that when a plane has crashed somewhere "the pilot was a hero because he steered the aircraft away from a school or houses at the last minute"? This always makes me laugh. You can rest assured that the reason the pilot is trying to avoid houses and schools is because he wants to maximise his own chances of survival.
It is human nature to look for reassurance that when things go wrong, there are "superhumans" or "hero's" sitting at the controls, so that when they next set foot on a plane they feel that little bit safer.
At the end of the day, the pilots were to a large extent passengers as well. At that height, and with that warning, and with apparently no power, there is only one way the aircraft is going and that's down. All they can do is to try and extend the glide for as long as possible until the laws of gravity take over. And that is flying basics number one, and is the same principle in whatever aircraft you are in.
I think if you were to speak to the Captain and First Officer they would be extremely embarrassed to receive all this attention and being hailed as heros, because they know full well that any pilot would have followed exactly the same procedure as they did.
NOW, if you want an example of REALLY heroic flying then this example will make interesting reading. It's the United DC-10 which crashed at Sioux City in July 1989. The pilots turned what was a virtually certain crash with the loss of everybody on-board into one which 185 people survived. In a documentary broadcast on the subject, it was reported that about 30 groups of United DC-10 pilots tried, in the simulator, many months afterwards to replicate the achievements of the original flight crew. Not a single one managed to even make the airport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232
Jan 20, 2008, 2:15 am
#711
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,667
And according to a report yesterday, the wife of the pilot is negotiating with Max Clifford to sell her husbands story to a Sunday newspaper.
Extremely embarrassed?????? Or milking it for financial reward?
Last edited by BOH; Jan 20, 2008 at 2:28 am
Jan 20, 2008, 2:36 am
#712
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: London, England, UK
Posts: 315
As to awards... Yes, there is an international award for "outstanding airmanship" and (I believe) there's also an award process within BA with the winner's (or winners') names engraved onto a plaque in Waterside.
It goes sans dire that we'll have to wait for the final AAIB report though.
Jan 20, 2008, 3:10 am
#713
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Well the co-pilot (notwithsanding his heroics) seems to have sold his story to the Sunday Mirror. Classy, eh?
And according to a report yesterday, the wife of the pilot is negotiating with Max Clifford to sell her husbands story to a Sunday newspaper.
Extremely embarrassed?????? Or milking it for financial reward?
And according to a report yesterday, the wife of the pilot is negotiating with Max Clifford to sell her husbands story to a Sunday newspaper.
Extremely embarrassed?????? Or milking it for financial reward?
The thing is, very soon there will be other stories making the headlines. By the end of today, when the aircraft is out of sight, it will be pretty much forgotten by the public and news channels.
Jan 20, 2008, 3:56 am
#715
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
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Here's some British quality journalism at it's very best 
"But when the girls smothered him in chocolate and licked it all off, Peter—then a 28-year-old First Officer—was left feeling rather joysticky...and needed to ditch in a bubble bath with the beauties".
Doesn't take time for the pics to appear!
Jan 20, 2008, 4:02 am
#717
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: England, though not on purpose.
Posts: 3,563
Jan 20, 2008, 4:12 am
#718
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There was me thinking BCal girls were polite, demure, refined and classy. Just goes to show you shouldn't believe all your read on FT. Now, is that a hairbrush I can spy in one of those pics
Jan 20, 2008, 4:21 am
#719
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 2,809
IMO, the flight crew have nothing to be ashamed about if they sell their stories to the papers. It's not as if they're profiting from their misconduct (and quite the contrary)!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7198598.stm
^
Senior First Officer John Coward told the Sunday Mirror he believed there was going to be a "catastrophic crash". [...]
I didn't think we'd clear the fence at first. As we landed I was bracing myself for an enormous thud. But instead of one thud, there was a series of thuds as it bounced along the grass."
He added: "Eventually it shuddered to a halt. While I was trying to stop the plane. I struggled to try and keep it in a straight line."
He said that after the crash "there was no sound at all. No sound from the engines, no sound from behind.
"I turned around and composed myself and heard a lot of commotion behind me. I realised that staff were trying to carry out the drills to evacuate all the passengers.
Mr Coward, who lives in France with his French wife and three children, said he had been left haunted by the incident and has been unable to sleep since Thursday. [...]
Mr Coward, who was credited by his captain, Peter Burkill, for averting a major crash, said he was humbled by people calling him a hero, but said: "I was only doing my job."
"The crew, the passengers, and everybody else acted heroically. Flying is definitely all about teamwork and that is what we all displayed," he added.
I didn't think we'd clear the fence at first. As we landed I was bracing myself for an enormous thud. But instead of one thud, there was a series of thuds as it bounced along the grass."
He added: "Eventually it shuddered to a halt. While I was trying to stop the plane. I struggled to try and keep it in a straight line."
He said that after the crash "there was no sound at all. No sound from the engines, no sound from behind.
"I turned around and composed myself and heard a lot of commotion behind me. I realised that staff were trying to carry out the drills to evacuate all the passengers.
Mr Coward, who lives in France with his French wife and three children, said he had been left haunted by the incident and has been unable to sleep since Thursday. [...]
Mr Coward, who was credited by his captain, Peter Burkill, for averting a major crash, said he was humbled by people calling him a hero, but said: "I was only doing my job."
"The crew, the passengers, and everybody else acted heroically. Flying is definitely all about teamwork and that is what we all displayed," he added.
Jan 20, 2008, 4:38 am
#720
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