Professor Yaffle

Dont hold your breath for a response from the AUC. Following BA screwing with us in August on a trip to DUB, my compensation requests to BA were met with two different responses, both standard letters with completely different excuses for the delay, clearly designed to fob me off.

Five months and two letters to the AUC later, I am still waiting for a response - I have had two letters from them, one promising a response within 3 months, and the second (after 3 months) apologising for missing their target and promising a response within another 2 months...

Will be satisified if all this waiting results in €600, but I somehow doubt it...

Disco Volante

brunos

I think that the "right to care" (article 7) is triggered by any cancellation (or delay) fr whatever reason. it is only the "compensation" that is debatable if there are "extraordinary circumstances".

JOUY31

Fully agree, there is no debate about whether any cancellation entitles you to the "right to care". It always does. Compensation is a completely different issue.

BAHumbug

And you haven't used the Small Claims Court because....?

BAH

spotwelder

MHL, you got mail

Sorry about the earlier mistake, it might be Consumer Protection Group of the CAA not ERG that is the department of the Campaign Against Aviation for complaints:

The responsibilities of the Consumer Protection Group (CPG) are to:

regulate the finances and fitness of travel organisers selling flights and package holidays in the UK.

manage the UK's largest system of consumer protection for travellers, Air travel Organisers' Licensing (ATOL).

license UK airlines and enforce European Council requirements in relation to their finances, nationality, liability of passengers for death or injury and insurance.

enforce certain other legal requirements and codes of practice for protection of airlines' customers.

CPG are the enforcers

MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING BETWEEN THE DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT AND
THE CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY
Schedule
Agreement of Action for CAA and AUC* in connection with the application and enforcement of EC
Regulation 261/2004, establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in
the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights ("the Regulation"), in the UK.
1. The CAA will request from airlines (other than non-UK Community carriers) operating to or from
airports in the UK confirmation that arrangements will be put into place for the company to
comply with the Regulation.
2. Once the Regulation enters force, the AUC will be responsible for dealing with all initial
complaints from dissatisfied passengers. Where the AUC is unable to secure a satisfactory
resolution to a passenger's complaint or identifies a trend of apparent non-compliance by an
airline, the matter will be referred to the CAA to consider further action.
3. Where a reference has been made, the CAA will itself make reasonable efforts to secure
compliance by the airline.
4. If after considering any relevant records, it appears to the CAA that an airline is in contravention
of the Regulation, and has failed to comply after suitable requests from the CAA, then the CAA
will consider initiating legal proceedings. Where it decides to prosecute it will inform DfT.
*AUC - Air Transport User’s Council

As we know the ATUC/AUC are useless and you may as well write directly to the CAA.

Ex Amex Card

... the website for moneyclaim online recommend that you try and resolve the dispute without resorting to legal action if at all possible and that taking legal action is a last resort....

To be fair to BAH though, 3 months is most certainly long enough for an airline or the AUC to address the problem. If it was up to me then I would be inclined to start proceedings in the small claims court - regardless of whether you have a case or not, it's likely that the airline would just settle out of court.

alexss

This is correct provided the Regulation applies to the flight. As noted earlier, BA could claim under article 3 that it does not, because the flight is to an EU airport, not from one.

The reason the Regulation is ambiguous here is that many countries have their own rules about what happens in the event of denied boarding, cancellations, etc (the USA and Brazil for example). An EU Regulation cannot supplant these laws and so could not universally apply to third countries (even flights operated by EU airlines). However the way the Regulation was drafted is so unclear that airlines often claim it doesn't apply at all in third countries, provided some other benefit has been provided.

frankvb

If I remember the regulation correctly, it will always apply in case of an EU airline, no matter where the flight originates.

d'Yquem

In my experience, they don't even tell you that much.

alexss

That's one reading of the Regulation, but not the reading most airlines are using - and it is not clear. Article 3 states the Reg applies:

(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight concerned is a Community carrier

it does not say "benefits or compensation as specified in this Regulation" or "benefits or compensation in accordance with the law of the third country"; either of these would be clear. This has enabled airlines to interpret this as meaning "any benefits or compensation" - and hence to pay out very little (in this case, a new flight might count).

Ex Amex Card

That's what I thought too but alexss is correct and raises an interesting point:


Article 3

Scope

1. This Regulation shall apply:

(a) to passengers departing from an airport located in the territory of
a Member State to which the Treaty applies;

(b) to passengers departing from an airport located in a third
country to an airport situated in the territory of a Member
State to which the Treaty applies, unless they received
benefits or compensation and were given assistance in that
third country, if the operating air carrier of the flight
concerned is a Community carrier.

(with emphasis added)

So it appears that if your flight originates from outside the EU and the airline gives the passenger benefits/compensation/assistance in the (non EU) country of departure then the regulation doesn't apply?

Professor Yaffle

Have been busy

Will be chasing AUC this week and then going down that route (unless there is a time limit on claims that way

uk1

Normally 6 years.

All handled on line and easy peasy (ish)

Info:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/i...aims/index.htm

Start the claim:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

Professor Yaffle

Thanks

Just chased the AUC - told I wont get any response until my claim reaches the top of the pile in another 8 weeks - around 9 months after I submitted my claim

Looks like they are a toothless, pointless organisation after all.

Off to the courts it is then...