BA Confirm 757 Trans-Atlantic Flights from EUR
Sep 25, 2007, 2:14 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: London, England
Programs: OW Emerald (BA), UA*G, Marriott Plat, IC RA, Various others
Posts: 1,009
BA Confirm 757 Trans-Atlantic Flights from EUR
This was posted on ATW Online today:
Walsh: First open skies stage no threat to BA's transatlantic market share
Tuesday September 25, 2007
British Airways CEO Willie Walsh does not expect the first stage of EU-US open skies, set to take effect at the end of March, to have a major impact.
"I expect nothing radical and nothing like the predictions of [European Commissioner of Transport Jacques] Barrot," he said at the Routes Leaders Forum in Stockholm. He foresees a move of some capacity from London Gatwick to London Heathrow, but nothing far-reaching and nothing that will cause BA to lose significant transatlantic market share.
Walsh confirmed to this website that BA will start operating from "two or three" bases in continental Europe to New York JFK with newly refurbished 757s. The carrier has 13 757s in its fleet and currently operates them on short/medium-haul services. He stressed that BA will not operate 757s on transatlantic routes from the UK and that only "some" will move to the continental Europe transatlantic routes. "The 757 is not the perfect aircraft [to operate transatlantic] but it will compete well [with US carriers]," he said.
He conceded that US passengers rather than European customers are the target of the expanded transatlantic services. "BA is a very strong brand in the US," he explained. "We have a strong market presence because we serve 18 [US] destinations out of London and are known for our excellent service and product. We have our own terminal in JFK. Overall, we see [continental Europe-US services] as a low-risk operation, but we will start small."
Walsh: First open skies stage no threat to BA's transatlantic market share
Tuesday September 25, 2007
British Airways CEO Willie Walsh does not expect the first stage of EU-US open skies, set to take effect at the end of March, to have a major impact.
"I expect nothing radical and nothing like the predictions of [European Commissioner of Transport Jacques] Barrot," he said at the Routes Leaders Forum in Stockholm. He foresees a move of some capacity from London Gatwick to London Heathrow, but nothing far-reaching and nothing that will cause BA to lose significant transatlantic market share.
Walsh confirmed to this website that BA will start operating from "two or three" bases in continental Europe to New York JFK with newly refurbished 757s. The carrier has 13 757s in its fleet and currently operates them on short/medium-haul services. He stressed that BA will not operate 757s on transatlantic routes from the UK and that only "some" will move to the continental Europe transatlantic routes. "The 757 is not the perfect aircraft [to operate transatlantic] but it will compete well [with US carriers]," he said.
He conceded that US passengers rather than European customers are the target of the expanded transatlantic services. "BA is a very strong brand in the US," he explained. "We have a strong market presence because we serve 18 [US] destinations out of London and are known for our excellent service and product. We have our own terminal in JFK. Overall, we see [continental Europe-US services] as a low-risk operation, but we will start small."
Sep 25, 2007, 3:25 am
#3
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: BA Silver, HHonors Silver, Marriott Club, Priority Club Club
Posts: 334
Well, imagine the marketing spin they could put on it:
- we offer direct flights to European cities
- shorter flight times for where you want to go without connections
- you can take more than one carry on with you (whether they'd all fit in a 757 cabin is another matter)
- no need to connect through Heathrow so BA cannot treat you like dirt after paying a fortune for a ticket and an overnight flight.
All in all, it could work - I could see some of these becoming 767 or 777's over time when people realise they can have the on-board service without the Hell Hole Heathrow - that I still maintain is because of BA rather than BAA.
NGBTS
- we offer direct flights to European cities
- shorter flight times for where you want to go without connections
- you can take more than one carry on with you (whether they'd all fit in a 757 cabin is another matter)
- no need to connect through Heathrow so BA cannot treat you like dirt after paying a fortune for a ticket and an overnight flight.
All in all, it could work - I could see some of these becoming 767 or 777's over time when people realise they can have the on-board service without the Hell Hole Heathrow - that I still maintain is because of BA rather than BAA.
NGBTS
Sep 25, 2007, 3:29 am
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,735
Hmm. Well it certainly won't contribute to profits for a year or so.
And I am not really sure 757s will cut it on these routes, despite their extra speed. Though I suppose their modest capacity reduces risk. L'Avion use them between Paris and New York in all business Class layout.
Though inevitably it will mean reduced capacity for intra-Europe flights, especially Espana flights exT3 for which the 757s are currently earmarked, but then again Iberia takeover looms.......
Though in BA's favour it does have usually excellent lounges at many European outstations (which will be due a priority refurb in line with the new lounge concept), ground ops are in place, and it will reduce the need to transit LHR, which although not consistently as bad as many exceptional horror stories make out on here, is not as easy as it should be.
Does seem a shame that these services will be launched after www.ba.com/terminal5 makes transits on BA that much faster and less stressful.
And please let's stop this hellhole LHR mantra. It really has been a difficult early summer, but there was a major terrorist attack in the UK, let's remember. It has been extrememly bad in exceptional cases, but sometimes it works just fine andwill get better with T5.
And I am not really sure 757s will cut it on these routes, despite their extra speed. Though I suppose their modest capacity reduces risk. L'Avion use them between Paris and New York in all business Class layout.
Though inevitably it will mean reduced capacity for intra-Europe flights, especially Espana flights exT3 for which the 757s are currently earmarked, but then again Iberia takeover looms.......
Though in BA's favour it does have usually excellent lounges at many European outstations (which will be due a priority refurb in line with the new lounge concept), ground ops are in place, and it will reduce the need to transit LHR, which although not consistently as bad as many exceptional horror stories make out on here, is not as easy as it should be.
Does seem a shame that these services will be launched after www.ba.com/terminal5 makes transits on BA that much faster and less stressful.
And please let's stop this hellhole LHR mantra. It really has been a difficult early summer, but there was a major terrorist attack in the UK, let's remember. It has been extrememly bad in exceptional cases, but sometimes it works just fine andwill get better with T5.
Sep 25, 2007, 3:54 am
#5
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Europe
Programs: Mucci, BAEC Gold, Aegean Gold
Posts: 2,115
What classes will BA fly on the 757s? Surely not all four, but FWIW the all-business class on PrivatAir 319s between eg. DUS to EWR/ORD on LH and AMS to IAH on KL seem popular. Is BA targeting this segment of the market, or at least let's say 70% NNCW and 30% WTP+ (more or less)?
Sep 25, 2007, 4:00 am
#6
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 540
I'm aware of the hand baggage limitations as well as the liquid restrictions for carry ons and always ensure I adhere to these rules. Not had a problem as of yet.
I've not yet had to transfer between terminals, and not had to check bags for a while so cant comment on issues there.
But for me at least, LHR and LGW are a breeze.
Sep 25, 2007, 4:49 am
#7
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL350, seat 0k
Programs: SK*G, BA Silver, Flying Blue, VLM, VT Traveller, PC Platinum, BW Diamond
Posts: 3,545
What classes will BA fly on the 757s? Surely not all four, but FWIW the all-business class on PrivatAir 319s between eg. DUS to EWR/ORD on LH and AMS to IAH on KL seem popular. Is BA targeting this segment of the market, or at least let's say 70% NNCW and 30% WTP+ (more or less)?
I know they say that the 757s are being re-fitted, but iirc they have toilets galleys and lockers in obscure places so it would be a major re-fit. If they do it, then it would be good for me. I would happily fly on NNCW on a 757 (would be like upper deck on 747), however you only have to ask people who have flown BMIs borrowed Icelandair 757 in Y to find out how hellish that can be...
Sep 25, 2007, 7:15 am
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Well, a couple of points:
1) CO has been very successful flying 757s across the Atlantic, so I don't think it is that big of a risk from a profit perspective.
2) VS is the only competitor that BA faces with flat beds in J. Remember that NYC-CDG/AMS/BRU/FRA, etc is competing against AF, CO, KL, DL, LH etc. Until (and only if) VS launches aggressively, it won't take a groundbreaking hard product to compete with the rest of the carriers plying the Atlantic.
1) CO has been very successful flying 757s across the Atlantic, so I don't think it is that big of a risk from a profit perspective.
2) VS is the only competitor that BA faces with flat beds in J. Remember that NYC-CDG/AMS/BRU/FRA, etc is competing against AF, CO, KL, DL, LH etc. Until (and only if) VS launches aggressively, it won't take a groundbreaking hard product to compete with the rest of the carriers plying the Atlantic.
Sep 25, 2007, 7:38 am
#10
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: BA Silver, HHonors Silver, Marriott Club, Priority Club Club
Posts: 334
Making the transfer experience nigh on impossible within the MCT when BA control the Gate staff, transfer buses and dispatchers is a real problem BA need to address. Let us not forget that come T5 in March, domestic passengers ans short haul to current T4 long haul passengers will still have to connect to T4 for some considerable time so this is not a short term problem.
Willie Walsh speech of last week stated that up to 50% of domestic passenger are transfer and yet BA seem incapable or unwilling do anything about this to make the experience easier. During my last connection from T1 to T4 and opposite on the return, BAA accounted for 5 minutes delay. BA contributed to over 3 hours delay in total due to non availability of staff or buses - so BA blaming BAA is also a bit of an injustice to BAA as well - why BAA are not shouting about that I do not know and pointing the finger as well. FYI - BAA transfer buses form T4 to T3 were running at 5 minute intervals with no queue so it is possible.
If you are O&D traffic from LHR I am sure it is a breeze. We recently flew MAN -> JFK on BA and that was indeed a breeze - check-in was about 10 mins, security was quick as was boarding and the luggage was quickly out at both ends. Seems BA can do it, but not at their main hub - and choose to blame BAA for their own shortcomings.
NGBTS.
Sep 25, 2007, 7:42 am
#11
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,400
In addition, don't expect competition not to react to BA's entrance on the ex-Continental EUR market. I may be mistaken, but my expectation is that BA has a lot more to lose, revenue-wise, from new carriers on the LHR-US market, with its current price premium, than other carriers based in continental Europe, from BA's new routes.
Last edited by JOUY31; Sep 25, 2007 at 7:52 am
Sep 25, 2007, 8:51 am
#12
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,629
BA's brand perception is indeed strong in some parts of the US and thus I agree with them that they will be successful in attracting US-based passengers on these flights. Apparently their focus will be on JFK and they will be able to get passengers off of CO and DL.
Sep 25, 2007, 8:54 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,629
We will have to agree to disagree. Having connected through LHR many times over the last few years, BA do a real disservice to their connecting passengers with their penny pinching attitude. This has been the same for many months and years so is nothing new, nor is it adversely affected by any terrorist attacks.
Making the transfer experience nigh on impossible within the MCT when BA control the Gate staff, transfer buses and dispatchers is a real problem BA need to address. Let us not forget that come T5 in March, domestic passengers ans short haul to current T4 long haul passengers will still have to connect to T4 for some considerable time so this is not a short term problem.
Willie Walsh speech of last week stated that up to 50% of domestic passenger are transfer and yet BA seem incapable or unwilling do anything about this to make the experience easier. During my last connection from T1 to T4 and opposite on the return, BAA accounted for 5 minutes delay. BA contributed to over 3 hours delay in total due to non availability of staff or buses - so BA blaming BAA is also a bit of an injustice to BAA as well - why BAA are not shouting about that I do not know and pointing the finger as well. FYI - BAA transfer buses form T4 to T3 were running at 5 minute intervals with no queue so it is possible.
If you are O&D traffic from LHR I am sure it is a breeze. We recently flew MAN -> JFK on BA and that was indeed a breeze - check-in was about 10 mins, security was quick as was boarding and the luggage was quickly out at both ends. Seems BA can do it, but not at their main hub - and choose to blame BAA for their own shortcomings.
NGBTS.
Making the transfer experience nigh on impossible within the MCT when BA control the Gate staff, transfer buses and dispatchers is a real problem BA need to address. Let us not forget that come T5 in March, domestic passengers ans short haul to current T4 long haul passengers will still have to connect to T4 for some considerable time so this is not a short term problem.
Willie Walsh speech of last week stated that up to 50% of domestic passenger are transfer and yet BA seem incapable or unwilling do anything about this to make the experience easier. During my last connection from T1 to T4 and opposite on the return, BAA accounted for 5 minutes delay. BA contributed to over 3 hours delay in total due to non availability of staff or buses - so BA blaming BAA is also a bit of an injustice to BAA as well - why BAA are not shouting about that I do not know and pointing the finger as well. FYI - BAA transfer buses form T4 to T3 were running at 5 minute intervals with no queue so it is possible.
If you are O&D traffic from LHR I am sure it is a breeze. We recently flew MAN -> JFK on BA and that was indeed a breeze - check-in was about 10 mins, security was quick as was boarding and the luggage was quickly out at both ends. Seems BA can do it, but not at their main hub - and choose to blame BAA for their own shortcomings.
NGBTS.
More support for your valid comments:
Travellers ‘wait hours at Heathrow’
Published: Tuesday, 25 September, 2007, 07:31 AM Doha Time
LONDON: Passengers at Heathrow are being forced to wait for up to three hours to get through passport control because of a chronic shortage of immigration staff, it was claimed yesterday.
Some travellers have stood in queues for so long that they have fainted, according to an investigation by the Public and Commercial Services union.
The survey of union representatives at Heathrow revealed that immigration desks at the airport were 250 shifts short in the week from September 2-8.
Worst hit was Terminal 3, serving long-haul destinations, which was 123 shifts short.
The staffing problems at the Border and Immigration Agency (BIA) come amid criticism of Heathrow from business leaders and MPs, who accuse the airport of presenting a poor image of Britain.
...
Sep 25, 2007, 9:00 am
#14
Moderator: Flying Blue (Air France & KLM), France and TravelBuzz!
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Paris, France, AF F+ Rouge pour toujours, Flying Blue whatever, LH FTL, HHonors Gold, formerly proud SCC Executive, now IC Ambassador, BA down to nobody, Grand Voyageur Le Club
Posts: 12,400
BA's brand perception is indeed strong in some parts of the US and thus I agree with them that they will be successful in attracting US-based passengers on these flights. Apparently their focus will be on JFK and they will be able to get passengers off of CO and DL.
Last edited by JOUY31; Sep 25, 2007 at 10:14 am
Sep 25, 2007, 9:12 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,806
(1) I'm not sure you can pray in aid of a defence of LHR a terminal that is not even open yet. LHR falls to be judged, today, by what it is providing today.
(2) It is, today, a hell-hole. Rude staff, huge queues, dilapidated equipment, run down public spaces and interminable delays; all a testament to years of chronic underinvestment and bad management. It is a disgrace of national proportions, as those of us who use it regularly can surely testify. Frankly, I am ashamed of it and I'm not prepared to paint a happy smile on my face in some effort at national pride.
And let's not forget. T5 will only help those people who are going to use it. Those not venturing through its increasingly over-hyped portals will have to make do with the armpit that is the rest of the airport. Not everyone travels with BA when they come to our shores.
Last edited by The Saint; Sep 25, 2007 at 9:24 am