OT: LH considering flat beds in economy

Old Aug 8, 07, 10:00 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Jimmie76 View Post
I can't see this actually getting anywhere for the simple reason that the planes will have space that potentially isn't being used on some flights, which I can't see the bean counters being very happy about, 200 euro or not (happy to be proved wrong here).

If the space was convertible back into seats then I can see the sense, but not if there will be Y seats empty because pax have decided to pay the extra for a bunk. What happens if you can't get to sleep, despite trying counting Sheep etc. do you have a seat you can go back to if you want or not?

If loads of people pony up the 200 euro, and there are lots of economy rows empty at the back of the plane, those pax who didn't want to fork out, can just lie across those empty seats.
If you read the LH thread you will see that the bunks effectively form a seperate class within the aircraft. You will thus choose either a sleeper or Y seat, much as you would choose a J seat or a Y seat. You would not expect to get both.

For take off and landing the bunks convert into a sort of seat arrangement with backrest on the lower bunk. 4 People will be strapped into this during take off and landing. I personally think the concept is rather sound, get pissed n the lounge, maybe watch a film with a drink (you have helped yourself to) and then sleep until shortly before landing. That sounds pretty much like my normal longhaul travel routine in J or F
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Old Aug 8, 07, 10:32 am
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This could quite seriously change the way that very long haul travel works.

The idea that a flat bed would no longer be the preserve of F/J will be a major change. It will mean that for many the argument for F/J travel (ie a good sleep and a flat bed) will be blown out of the window.

I suspect that this is yet another nail in the coffin for F class travel.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 10:40 am
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Originally Posted by Flying Doctor View Post
This could quite seriously change the way that very long haul travel works.

The idea that a flat bed would no longer be the preserve of F/J will be a major change. It will mean that for many the argument for F/J travel (ie a good sleep and a flat bed) will be blown out of the window.

I suspect that this is yet another nail in the coffin for F class travel.
I don't think that's true. Remember we've only had flat beds (in jets) for a little more than a decade, and F has been around for a lot longer. And as LH themselves have discovered, enhancing the product on the ground as well as in the air attracts you plenty of F customers.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 10:49 am
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Although I agree with the point about LH F I think that corporate travel budjets will come under increasing pressure with these kind of developments. It makes it harder to justify a 4k price tag for a J Class return to the US versus 500-800.

FD
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Old Aug 8, 07, 10:53 am
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Originally Posted by BAAZ View Post
I don't think that's true. Remember we've only had flat beds (in jets) for a little more than a decade, and F has been around for a lot longer. And as LH themselves have discovered, enhancing the product on the ground as well as in the air attracts you plenty of F customers.
There is the rub though isn't it? Some carriers are happy to invest in the total experience like LH, SQ, CX and even VS up to a point. Other carriers are happy to make an investemnt in the onboard product, but see improving the service offering as stacking up increased labour costs (i.e. threatening current "optimised" crewing levels).

I think there is a real place for an F experience which provides end to end convenience and service, I see little room in the market for just a nice seat.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 10:56 am
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Originally Posted by Flying Doctor View Post
Although I agree with the point about LH F I think that corporate travel budjets will come under increasing pressure with these kind of developments. It makes it harder to justify a 4k price tag for a J Class return to the US versus 500-800.

FD
I think the bunk bed idea is actually rather clever from that perspective. It is almost impossible for any PAX to work on board when all they have is a bed. For those of us who do occasionally need to work, I don't think this is such a big issue. It is way better value for my clients to spend a little extra so that I can actually work rather than paying for my time spent sleeping/eating and watching films.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 11:11 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by BraniffLuvr View Post
Good point.

Wouldn't this run into cultural sensitivities? Europeans may be quite happy lying next to someone they don't know but many East Asian and Arabic people would be less than pleased to end up in this arrangement.
Actually it looks a fair bit like a Chinese sleeper bus...and even more like hard sleep class on their trains.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 12:49 pm
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How would somebody eat if assigned to a sleeper? If going West Coast USA, Asia or Australia on LH, you would certainly want to eat at least once..........
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Old Aug 8, 07, 1:26 pm
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Originally Posted by Traveloguy View Post
How would somebody eat if assigned to a sleeper? If going West Coast USA, Asia or Australia on LH, you would certainly want to eat at least once..........
LH don't fly to OZ. It seems like you pick up a snack and take it back to your bunk if you want to eat or drink. It isnt clear if they have some sort of "bar" area.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 3:51 pm
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The concept is spreading:http://www.stuff.co.nz/4157740a13.html
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Old Aug 8, 07, 9:29 pm
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Originally Posted by sunrisegirl View Post
Looks like army barracks


Guess those complimentary on board socks will be put to another use then.
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Old Aug 8, 07, 9:43 pm
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Haven't we all heard various J cabins described similarly ? (when all pax are "bedded down")...

Folks are already so close to each other in Y it's hard to see that triple bunks make much difference IMO....

Given the stated limitations - overnight flights only/possibly serving meals BEFORE boarding etc... looks good to me.... but I'll believe it when I see it.....

Hmmm... the choice becomes - Y.... Y+... and Yflat!!
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Old Aug 9, 07, 1:27 am
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Originally Posted by Land-of-Miles View Post
If you read the LH thread you will see that the bunks effectively form a seperate class within the aircraft. You will thus choose either a sleeper or Y seat, much as you would choose a J seat or a Y seat. You would not expect to get both.

For take off and landing the bunks convert into a sort of seat arrangement with backrest on the lower bunk. 4 People will be strapped into this during take off and landing. I personally think the concept is rather sound, get pissed n the lounge, maybe watch a film with a drink (you have helped yourself to) and then sleep until shortly before landing. That sounds pretty much like my normal longhaul travel routine in J or F
Sorry if I gave the impression that I hadn't read the LH thread, I did and I got the idea that it was basically a separate class. What I wasn't so keen on was being forced to stay lying down in bed if I couldn't sleep, and would rather sit up and read, which from the screen shot doesn't look like it will be possible in the bunk.

It goes without saying that there will be people who will be happy to do this (you possibly) and LH will sell them a bunk.
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Old Aug 9, 07, 2:04 am
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Jimmie76 View Post

It goes without saying that there will be people who will be happy to do this (you possibly) and LH will sell them a bunk.
Nah not me, wouldn't be seen dead in Y Flat or not I think it is an interesting development nonetheless because it should have a positive effect on service levels in the rest of the aircraft. As beds become less of a differentiator, service takes on more importance.
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Old Aug 9, 07, 10:02 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Land-of-Miles View Post
Nah not me, wouldn't be seen dead in Y Flat or not I think it is an interesting development nonetheless because it should have a positive effect on service levels in the rest of the aircraft. As beds become less of a differentiator, service takes on more importance.
Oh okay you have the same personal policy regarding Y as me
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