BA Cabin Crew Vote 96% In Favour Of Strike Action
#376
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, BD Gold, PC Ambassador, SPG Gold
Posts: 4,001
As the truth gradually comes out, the crew's position looks increasingly self-centred.
#377
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midland, by way of Odessa, by way of El Paso, by way of Abuja, by way of Mexico City, by way of...
Programs: Aadvantage Exec Plat, AmEx Platinum, Hilton Diamond, United Club, Admiral's Club
Posts: 316
What is the total financial value of everything on which the union and management disagree? I understand that a lot of it deals with feelings of respect, but the issues over which people have the power to negotiate ultimately boil down to money. Even something like sickness policy can be quantified, zB if we miss x% of our staff it costs us y sterling to have replacements available for them.
The reason I am asking is that I am trying to understand the business calculation of allowing the strike to go forward. If I am going to lose a few tens of millions of pounds a day for up to 9 days and then depress bookings going forward, at some point it becomes cheaper to give the union what they want than to prosecute a strike.
Similarly, the union could do the same calculation- I can potentially cost the company x with industrial action, so my demands should presumably be smaller than that.
Again, I am not passing judgment on either side. I am insufficiently informed, and I have no training as either a crew member or an aviation executive. I also fully realize there are emotional/respect issues to be dealt with, but it is exceedingly difficult to negotiate those. Ultimately, the fight comes down to pounds and pence. Is what is at stake more valuable than the revenue which will be lost?
The reason I am asking is that I am trying to understand the business calculation of allowing the strike to go forward. If I am going to lose a few tens of millions of pounds a day for up to 9 days and then depress bookings going forward, at some point it becomes cheaper to give the union what they want than to prosecute a strike.
Similarly, the union could do the same calculation- I can potentially cost the company x with industrial action, so my demands should presumably be smaller than that.
Again, I am not passing judgment on either side. I am insufficiently informed, and I have no training as either a crew member or an aviation executive. I also fully realize there are emotional/respect issues to be dealt with, but it is exceedingly difficult to negotiate those. Ultimately, the fight comes down to pounds and pence. Is what is at stake more valuable than the revenue which will be lost?
#378
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Programs: BA EC Gold
Posts: 9,236
The reason I am asking is that I am trying to understand the business calculation of allowing the strike to go forward. If I am going to lose a few tens of millions of pounds a day for up to 9 days and then depress bookings going forward, at some point it becomes cheaper to give the union what they want than to prosecute a strike.
Similarly, the union could do the same calculation- I can potentially cost the company x with industrial action, so my demands should presumably be smaller than that.
Similarly, the union could do the same calculation- I can potentially cost the company x with industrial action, so my demands should presumably be smaller than that.
#379
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: On the X26 bus to and from LHR
Programs: BA Blue. 19695 Lifetime TPs
Posts: 2,316
The reason I am asking is that I am trying to understand the business calculation of allowing the strike to go forward. If I am going to lose a few tens of millions of pounds a day for up to 9 days and then depress bookings going forward, at some point it becomes cheaper to give the union what they want than to prosecute a strike.
Yes, but if management do it once (and they have...) then next time it becomes more difficult to say "no". And more so the time after that. Until, basically, the union is running the airline. In the face of this principle and combined with the frankly indefensible level of "sickness"" (yeah right), even though I'm likely to have to scratch my holiday in South Africa (and, I guess lose the about-to-expire AMEX 241 I'm using for it), I'm with management in breaking the Spanish practices and addressing the p!55-takers (and I'm sorry, honest and assiduous BA staff but these guys are your enemies and take you down with them).
Though, of course, I hope all concerned can mutually find a way through without strikes.
#380
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midland, by way of Odessa, by way of El Paso, by way of Abuja, by way of Mexico City, by way of...
Programs: Aadvantage Exec Plat, AmEx Platinum, Hilton Diamond, United Club, Admiral's Club
Posts: 316
No doubt that backing down has a future value which is exceedingly difficult to measure. However, there is also a difficult to calculate value from bookings which you do not receive in the future because people begin to associate BA with problems flying. Some is the fault of the company, some not, but between GateGourment, liquid explosives, strikes, baggage issues, LHR being a cluster***k, and bad weather, at some point people just start to book away. Alas, that is an economic question which is best answered by people with powers more mystical than my own.
#381
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,775
As the truth gradually comes out, the crew's position looks increasingly self-centred.
Remember the quote from Jesus Christ Superstar? ".....But, what is truth - is truth unchanging law? We both have truths - are mine the same as yours?" Always remember that a slant can be put on stories according to who is relating it and what their motives are - and a "slant" is not viewed as an untruth!
As a Trades Union representative, I remember telling my colleagues "we'll end up suffering for this!" when the 6 million Ł29 return fares were announced. They didn't listen and now look - Rod Eddington and Willie Walsh between them are making the thin front-line (Ground staff and Cabin crew) suffer.
.......Meanwhile, the fat cats sip their lattes at Watersde oblivious to the company that is crashing around their ears or the passengers, like srbrenna, that are going to be seriously screwed around!
If only ACAS can sort the whole bloody mess out and, in good Irish style, crack some heads!
#382
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: London
Posts: 2,809
If I were you, I'd phone up to rebook regardless of the validity period of your AMEX 241. As someone mentioned in the other thread, you want to take the flights booked and this whole situation is not your problem.
#383
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11
paydeals
Yes you are. You are asking to add four additional paypoints to the pay scales for all post '97 joiners. Here is a quote from BAs reply to BASSA/TGWU:
The T&G/BASSA position is to add an extra four increments to the pay scales for those who joined since 1997.
These would be:
1. 16200
2. 17000
3. 17800
4. 18600
This amounts to an 18 per cent pay rise for top-of-scale crew whose earnings would then exceed Ł30,000 per annum. The cost of adding these to the scale including pensions would be Ł10.4m per year, rising to Ł19m over time.
I must state clearly that this is just not a sustainable cost for the company and cannot be accepted as a reasonable basis for negotiation.
The T&G/BASSA position is to add an extra four increments to the pay scales for those who joined since 1997.
These would be:
1. 16200
2. 17000
3. 17800
4. 18600
This amounts to an 18 per cent pay rise for top-of-scale crew whose earnings would then exceed Ł30,000 per annum. The cost of adding these to the scale including pensions would be Ł10.4m per year, rising to Ł19m over time.
I must state clearly that this is just not a sustainable cost for the company and cannot be accepted as a reasonable basis for negotiation.
The accountants at BA wish to bring down employee costs to a minimum. The only way that that can happen is to employ cheap labour i.e students and young people. I am sure that many of you would love to be served by an 18 year old girl, however, this person may not have the necessary "life" experience to gauge certain situations or even the will to own and sort out a problem for you. Other airlines (Ryan Air and Easy Jet)employ staff from Eastern Europe and pay them below minimum wage. They can do this legally, but the service on board is at times diabolical. I leave it to, our loyal and intelligent customers who you'd rather have serving you, experienced cabin crew who love their job and would go that extra mile for you or de-motivated temporary staff you don't really care for your needs.......
#384
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 34
enough is enough!!
I think that BA may just have had enough with the Cabin Crew!! They do have a challenging job, however, they really must begin to understand that their position is becoming less and less powereful.
Yes, BA will suffer financial and brand damage during this dispute, however, they may well recognise that as a sound investment to find a long term resolution to the outdated / Spanish practices followed by the Cabin Crew.
Staff levels higher that any other Western airline, unacceptable sickness levels, concerns over working for hours that they are paid!!! This isn't acceptable and must be sorted out now!!
Go Willie!
Yes, BA will suffer financial and brand damage during this dispute, however, they may well recognise that as a sound investment to find a long term resolution to the outdated / Spanish practices followed by the Cabin Crew.
Staff levels higher that any other Western airline, unacceptable sickness levels, concerns over working for hours that they are paid!!! This isn't acceptable and must be sorted out now!!
Go Willie!
#385
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: On the X26 bus to and from LHR
Programs: BA Blue. 19695 Lifetime TPs
Posts: 2,316
I'm due to fly on 8th, so at this point nominally not affected by the strike, so will have to wait and see - in a way this makes things worse, because the knock-on will almost certainly mess us up but if it doesn't we have plans that I'd rather stick with....If we are affected I will do as you suggest.
#386
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London
Programs: BA silver, VS, Jet, Carlson gold, Amex Plat
Posts: 614
As a Trades Union representative, I remember telling my colleagues "we'll end up suffering for this!" when the 6 million Ł29 return fares were announced. They didn't listen and now look - Rod Eddington and Willie Walsh between them are making the thin front-line (Ground staff and Cabin crew) suffer.
If so, isn't that a blatant example of the Union trying to run the airline for the benefit of its employees only?
#389
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: UK
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 736
I don't think so. There are those of us who don't really want to see BA compete as a "low fares" airline - we want to see it compete as a good airline. I believe that bealine's point was that the money to fund the 6m fares marketing gimmick has to come from somewhere, and that place is most likely to be from the pockets of staff and from the services offered to passengers (whichever they can most easily get away with).