Plea for help from BA Cabin Crew
Dec 10, 2006, 12:21 pm
#16
Join Date: Mar 2005
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In terms of financial ramification of a strike or the company getting their way, a member of our staff forum made an excellent point :
Unlike most, we're not striking to get more from our employer... We're just striking to keep what we already have.
Unlike most, we're not striking to get more from our employer... We're just striking to keep what we already have.
Dec 10, 2006, 2:19 pm
#20
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,727
As a former union worker while working at a grocery store part time during high school, this "striking to keep what we have" is what was possibly considered by workers in the local union I was in. They reached an agreement which provided for just some small changes for current employees, mainly with regards to health benefits, workers would have to pay a bit more each month. The losers were future new hires. I wouldn't be surprised to see BA do something like that, however I'm not familiar with the whole collective bargaining process and labor relations in the UK.
It's sad to see this happening, as it was with my former employer. Companies that thrive financially for many decades are those who historically treat their employees as their most valuable resource. Just to cite a few examples, Starbucks which has some of the most satisfied employees, and lowest turnover rates in the retail industry. On the airline front, Southwest Airlines has been known for treating their employees the best, and surprise surprise, they have been the only airline consistently profitable in the US. Granted it's not all due to that factor, but the fact still remains that a company needs to have better labor relations. It's a shame to see BA have so many issues over the past several years. And while it's understandable that they need to reign in on costs in order to compete with the LCCs, doing so by aggravating your employees is not likely to do them any favor. At the same time, there are some limits to what employees in a union should receive, and sometimes the union is asking for too much. Not sure about what BA is doing though.
I'll be curious to see how things turn out this time, and am glad my last flight with BA in January will be on the 20th.
Good luck to you guys, tits, pucci, and the OP.
It's sad to see this happening, as it was with my former employer. Companies that thrive financially for many decades are those who historically treat their employees as their most valuable resource. Just to cite a few examples, Starbucks which has some of the most satisfied employees, and lowest turnover rates in the retail industry. On the airline front, Southwest Airlines has been known for treating their employees the best, and surprise surprise, they have been the only airline consistently profitable in the US. Granted it's not all due to that factor, but the fact still remains that a company needs to have better labor relations. It's a shame to see BA have so many issues over the past several years. And while it's understandable that they need to reign in on costs in order to compete with the LCCs, doing so by aggravating your employees is not likely to do them any favor. At the same time, there are some limits to what employees in a union should receive, and sometimes the union is asking for too much. Not sure about what BA is doing though.
I'll be curious to see how things turn out this time, and am glad my last flight with BA in January will be on the 20th.
Good luck to you guys, tits, pucci, and the OP.
Last edited by terpfan101; Dec 10, 2006 at 2:26 pm
Dec 10, 2006, 2:22 pm
#21
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, D
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 316
It was inappropriate and cynical to put this one-sided post on a BA passenger site.
If you dont like your pay or working conditions, why not go work for an airline that offers better pay or working conditions ? Thats what those of us who operate in the real (non trade union) world have to do.
Maybe the answer is that no other airline offers as generous conditions of employment, perks and pay. The BA cabin crews are good, but they are also quite pampered by airline standards and have it pretty good. Unfortunately BA has to operate in the real private sector economic world (unlike the NHS or other government bodies with our deep pockets to tap into at will) and cannot continue being out of sync and un competative in this area.
Sorry, nothing personal. There are a lot of people in the world working under very bad conditions who I could sympathise with, but I am afraid BA Cabin crew are not high up on the list.
Also, I have a real problem with an appeal that starts out with that tired old trade union mantra, " we really dont want to have to incovenience you, lose the airline millions, ruin peoples holidays, jobs etc, but we have not choice".
You do have a choice and if you really cared about the pax you wouldnt.
If you dont like your pay or working conditions, why not go work for an airline that offers better pay or working conditions ? Thats what those of us who operate in the real (non trade union) world have to do.
Maybe the answer is that no other airline offers as generous conditions of employment, perks and pay. The BA cabin crews are good, but they are also quite pampered by airline standards and have it pretty good. Unfortunately BA has to operate in the real private sector economic world (unlike the NHS or other government bodies with our deep pockets to tap into at will) and cannot continue being out of sync and un competative in this area.
Sorry, nothing personal. There are a lot of people in the world working under very bad conditions who I could sympathise with, but I am afraid BA Cabin crew are not high up on the list.
Also, I have a real problem with an appeal that starts out with that tired old trade union mantra, " we really dont want to have to incovenience you, lose the airline millions, ruin peoples holidays, jobs etc, but we have not choice".
You do have a choice and if you really cared about the pax you wouldnt.
Dec 10, 2006, 2:26 pm
#22
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I appreciate there are at least two sides to every story, but I've said it before - crew are usually amongst the least militant of airline/airport employees when it comes to strike action. Working in an airline IR department for years taught me that. 
So here's wishing you luck BA crew - I hope you can talk this out with your managers, etc before it comes to the strike action.
So here's wishing you luck BA crew - I hope you can talk this out with your managers, etc before it comes to the strike action.
Dec 10, 2006, 2:29 pm
#23
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hm, time to buy another fully flexible (and thus refundable) CW J ticket in order to get those 100k compensation miles again. I missed out last time, so it is my turn now !
Dec 10, 2006, 2:43 pm
#24
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OAK
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As others have noted, there are doubtless 2 sides to this thing. It's never good to be put in a position of giving up something you have, and if the FAs make a calculated decision that they will come out better in the long term by striking, then that is their right - just as BA is presumably making its own calculations about what is best for the stockholders.
Similarly, as a customer, I will make my own decisions based on my calculation of what's best for me. Right now, I prefer CW to VS UC, and within Europe I fly BA for AA EQM/EQS; I'll be buying tix for a couple of trips in Q1, and will probably end flying VS and KLM/AF (for AS EQMs) because of the potential for a strike - and both the crew and BA stockholders will lose from that.
My bigger point is that if the OP had calmly stated the case rather than trying the "we're being forced into this" tosh and the bogus apology, then I would have been more likley to have been sympathetic (and I AM disposed to be sympathetic). I am no wiser about the substance of the grievencies now than I was before I began reading this thread.
Dec 10, 2006, 3:14 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,774
As to the actual topic, my feelings are with the crew. They have to put up with a lot, and not just from management. They are probably the most customer focused people in the whole of BA, and unlike the ground crew, don't go out on strike at the drop of a hat. They would only strike for good reason.
Dec 10, 2006, 3:17 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London, UK
Programs: Amex Gold, Sofitel Gold, Marriott Gold, BA Silver
Posts: 22
The 'we don't want to but we feel we have to' argument does strike a chord with me...
Being someone who flies a lot with BA I have had the chnce to sit and chat with many flight attendants and over the past couple of years the theme has been the same: namely, that the crew are feeling unsuppoted, bullied and threatened.
For an airline that prides itself on the quality of its crew (and quite rightly too, I generally find them excellent) how can they expect people to get on the plane, smile and provide good customer service to passengers if they're afraid of what's round the corner?
I have no sympathy with people who whine about having the crew pointing a gun at their heads to get at the management. How would you suggest the crew react when they feel that they have no other option? I find it contemptable to imply that crew would go out at the drop of a hat just to inconvenience the people who indirectly pay their wages.
If I felt that I had no alternative but to go on strike I'd hope that the people that it would have an impact on would not be so selfish as to think that being held up in an airport for a couple of hours, or having travel plans changed is a greater woe than whatever principle I would have decided to strike on (and not lightly either).
BA Crew, if you can really stand hand-on-heart and say that you have no alternative but to go on strike I respect that and wish you th best of luck.
Edited to add:
By the way, BA has 2 cabin crew unions: Amicus and the TGWU. They are traditionally seen as not often seeing eye to eye at grass roots level (despite merger plans higher up) so if they are both feeling driven towards action then that tells me something... There must be some truth in their claims
Being someone who flies a lot with BA I have had the chnce to sit and chat with many flight attendants and over the past couple of years the theme has been the same: namely, that the crew are feeling unsuppoted, bullied and threatened.
For an airline that prides itself on the quality of its crew (and quite rightly too, I generally find them excellent) how can they expect people to get on the plane, smile and provide good customer service to passengers if they're afraid of what's round the corner?
I have no sympathy with people who whine about having the crew pointing a gun at their heads to get at the management. How would you suggest the crew react when they feel that they have no other option? I find it contemptable to imply that crew would go out at the drop of a hat just to inconvenience the people who indirectly pay their wages.
If I felt that I had no alternative but to go on strike I'd hope that the people that it would have an impact on would not be so selfish as to think that being held up in an airport for a couple of hours, or having travel plans changed is a greater woe than whatever principle I would have decided to strike on (and not lightly either).
BA Crew, if you can really stand hand-on-heart and say that you have no alternative but to go on strike I respect that and wish you th best of luck.
Edited to add:
By the way, BA has 2 cabin crew unions: Amicus and the TGWU. They are traditionally seen as not often seeing eye to eye at grass roots level (despite merger plans higher up) so if they are both feeling driven towards action then that tells me something... There must be some truth in their claims
Dec 10, 2006, 5:16 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 920
That's a rather optimistic statement given that on my last trip about 50% of the crew didn't know there was a strike ballot in the offing and of those who did most didn't know what it was about. 'Overwhelming' is likely to be the last thing the result is is, and when it comes to action its likely to be a 'sick out' rather than official strike action from the majority.
Dec 10, 2006, 5:44 pm
#28
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Washington, D
Programs: BA Gold, Hilton Honors Diamond
Posts: 316
If you check the related threads over at PPRune.org in the Cabin Crew area, I think you will find a lot more detailed information as to what this is about and some differing views.
Dec 10, 2006, 10:14 pm
#29
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: BA, UA, Marriot
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How wonderfully 1970s of you. The world changes - get over it.
Dec 10, 2006, 11:27 pm
#30
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: AA Lifetime PLT , BA Silver , BD RIP , HH Gold, SPG / Marriott PLT , EF Subscriber
Posts: 6,700
Just be thankful you are not a Travel agent income from 9% to ZERO in 5 years, just so that you could have more money in your Pension Fund and retire after 35 years work. Call Centre and most Ground Staff staff [Whats left of them] Are expected to work until 65, why not the rest of the company.