SchmeckFlyer

But if the new rules are 2x23kg, you get 46kg... So no problem then?

I suspect the piece system destinations just will go down to 23kg in economy, and everything else left as it currently is. Just my guess. But if they do standardise accross the network, I bet premium cabins will get something like the 2x32kg allowance not allowed in all cabins to the USofA.

PUCCI GALORE

My Darlings - what in the name of all that is holy do you take with you when you go away? I can understand people who are moving or emigrating to have heavy luggage but 46 kgs in my head is over 100lbs weight. Now I know that some of the cases are quite heavy to start with - but how many changes of everything do you take. I am not addressing the families - particularly with small children - but the grwon up travelling alone or with your Significant Other.

I have to check a case when we are on a trip - but part of being on holiday is not having to wait for bags. I can only tell you that we are going to be challenged but I could do you a list of what Him Indoors - for example has put in his case (Yes I do the packing!) We take one piece of cabin baggage - period . Yes - I do take a trip to the Laundrette and catch up on the Wish You Were Here cards - but honestly you are talking incredible amounts of weight here. Businessmen I know do have to take all sorts of things that the leisure market does not need.

Shall we do a OT thread discussing packing gems and space saving wheezes? I'll show you mine if you show me yours!

bealine

The whole question of First and Club allowances has been thrown back for discussion. Originally, the allowances were going to be the same regardless of class of travel, but it seems management and staff are getting cold feet over this one! The fare differential for Premium Travel is a difficult one to justify,so we don't want to lose any fare-paying front-end passengers through being too greedy, too quickly!

Cargo Cult

Glad someone is thinking of these consequences... Personally though, one smallish bag plus small laptop bag is all I want in Economy. Official permission to take both would be a great thing for me. In Club, they really should allow extra as it does make it harder to justify otherwise.

One thought on the weight though - does it pose a potential safety issue? The point about hand luggage at present is that you are technically only allowed a small weight limit. Heavy baggage should go in the hold where it will be weighed, so BA knows how much there is. If everyone is allowed to bring on potentially heavy stuff with them, won't it increase the amount of unweighed baggage so BA will have less of an idea of the total weight loaded on the plane? Doesn't sound good to me - would there be trim/takeoff thrust consequences? Of course, I am but a passenger and don't know enough to tell whether that is really an issue

SQFreak

What about people who have a trans-Atlantic leg and a trans-Europe leg (IAD-LHR-DME)? Lowest baggage allowance applies? I'm hoping to get away with one piece of checked luggage for six weeks...

Mr MCO

I am one of those that come back home with two heavy bags (one around 28Kg and the second not far away). The issue is not about how much I pack for the holiday as much as how much I gain during the holidays.... And no way I will do any washing while on a two week holidays...

My holidays tend to be more than just holidays. I end up going to a couple of parties, this and that.... so I need plenty of clothes and shoes...

bealine

No - provided you are travelling all on BA metal or One World Carriers the higher weight limit applies! (ie that of the IAD-LHR leg which is 2 x 23 kgs of checked baggage). However, the "2 pieces at up to 23kgs each" does NOT translate into 1 piece at 30kg or whatever. If you do decide to carry one piece which is over the 23kg maximum limit, you will indeed qualify for excess charges.

The new baggage policy is not intended to "rip you off", it is designed to:

(a) Reduce fuel wastage and handling charges through carrying unnecessary weight
(b) Ensure we receive adequate contribution towards extra fuel costs when excess weight is carried.
(c) Ensure all our our customers are treated equally, fairly and consistently.
(d) Close an uncontrolled system where a "blind eye" was frequently being turned by check in staff. (On one long-haul flight alone that accountants had "check weighed", BA had "failed to charge" over £37,000 in excess baggage dues.
(e) Increase space available on Transatlantic sectors for cargo availability.

All it means is that the majority of customers will have no problem. The few who frequently fly with overweight baggage will no longer be able to "get away with it". Initially, BA will inevitably lose a few customers as the system bites, but we fully expect these customers to return as all other airlines are expected to ultimately follow suit. (Indeed, the 2 pieces at 23kg (50lbs) has already been implemented by the US carriers).

SLF

Perhaps when I travel as a family, I'm in a minority. Oh well. Pressing on. Note that my comments are not directed at bealine, who I assume is just the messenger.

Family of 4. Normally 2 suitcases. With a pooled limit of (e.g. 4 * 23kg = 92kg), it's been really nice not to have the hassle of making sure each bag is no more than 23kg. So, 4 of us fit our stuff into 2 suitcases. Which will usually weigh around 23-27kg each. The "no pooling" proposal means we will have to take a third suitcase (additional weight for the suitcase, say 5kg). Taking a third suitcase means that we'll no longer be able to easily manage our way through airports with 2 young children. Nor onto public transport. Nor checking into hotels. We'll probably have to rent a bigger size car, adding to costs & emissions. And now that we're taking a third suitcase, we might as well put some more clothes in it so that we have to do less washing etc. So instead of a 2-suitcase 54kg load, BA will be forcing me into a 3-suitcase 69kg load.

Re the "adequate contribution to excess costs" and "increase space for cargo" well, you'll be forcing me to add an extra 5kg, and consume 1 suitcase of extra space to avoid paying extra, which shows that getting some £ from "excess" baggage is more important than e.g. cargo space.

Whilst many of the other suggestions are reasonable, I think the "no pooling" one is just a short term money grabbing technique, for which none of the justifications make sense.

Perhaps BA are concerned that pooling could be abused by pairing up with a stranger in the check-in queue. That can be fixed by permitting pooling only within the same and linked PNRs. Simple. Automated. Non-avoidable by rogue outstations. And doesn't p!ss off families.

Do I really believe that the CAA are forcing BA to scrap pooling? No. Do I really believe that the CAA are behind this? No (in the reasons given I can't see anything but benefit for BA). I can't see why the CAA would care about any of this. If other airlines copy, it will most likely because they have an example to follow/blame.

I resent that comment. We always fly with underweight baggage (when pooling is taken into account), but these proposals mean we will need to take more than previously. The fact that it's being considered when offered reasons such as "to increase cargo space" shows that no-pooling really is just a £ grabbing technique.

G-BOAC

bealine, I thank you for feeding us all this news and info. If nothing else, it gives me a chance to vent my frustration in to thin air in advance of it becoming 'the rules'

This what I find utterly retarded. If I turn up to the airport with a 24Kg case (which was about what my case weighed on my last return from NY after going shopping, vs. about 19 on the way out!) and one smaller case with 5Kg in it, I get charged excess baggage for 1Kg. How the hell does that make sense when I have 17Kg of allowance left? Either that, or I suffer the indignity of re-packing in the airport. Which will take time, piss me off, piss the agent off, piss the people in the (presumably growing) F (hmm, clever...) queue behind me off and do absolutely the opposite of delivering on WW's stated aim of 'eliminating queues'

If this is about saving fuel, then reducing the total limit seems sensible. Having a high total limit and enforcing it to be split seems to make no sense at all to anyone. In fact, it's going to have the opposite effect: I'll have to bring one case at 23Kg and a second for the extra 1Kg of luggage...except that case has a weight too...so instead of letting me carry one case at 24Kg BA will be carrying, what, 2 cases (more handling costs) at say 28Kg (more weight). MORONIC. And how does carrying an extra case increase cargo space?

Furthermore, I travel mostly on business. Who the hell wants to lug around two cases at 23Kg + A bit each instead of one at say 28Kg for a week+ trip around various places with various work bits + bobs in it (samples? literature? etc.)? A lone traveller having to arse around with TWO cases (plus laptop bag/rucksack as hand luggage) is infuriating. Once again, well done on pissing off the very market which by BA's own admission has just lifted its profits so nicely, ffs!

I also fail to see the rationale for disallowing pooling. It really does seem like something with no sense behind it at all. And there's no way in hell (with as bit of work *cough*) the 'clever computer' can't be told to tot up a total allowance for the PNR (i.e. add it up for all pax travelling) and only overcharge if the total exceeds this.

Really, I'd much rather they reduced my total limit to 30Kg, either in one case or in 2 cases. Any more cases = excess for that case. Any more weight over = excess per Kg. Fine. Surely that is (a) sensible, (b) saves fuel, (c) saves baggage handling costs by reducing the likely number of bags to handle which (d) leaves more space for cargo all whilst (e) not pissing off frequent (and even infrequent) passengers who have a modicum of sense and can see these rules are stupid.

Phil

adrianjc32

Your info isn't quite right. The pooling part has not yet been agreed, and we are likely to retain all pieces at 23k.

SchmeckFlyer

Even those of premium passengers? And BAEC elite members?

The masses upfront will riot!

Even KLM provides more generously for its business class customers, and elite FB members get extra allowances in addition to normal allowances.

Mr MCO

BA is just introducing what many others airlines in the USA have been doing for years. This is also what Virgin Atlantic is currently doing since April. It was just a matter of time thanks to the high prices of jet fuel. As much as I hate the idea.... I had been waiting for it.

It would be interesting to see if they increase the carry on allowance to 18Kg as airlines in the USA do. If that is the case, I will be able to have 2 x 23Kg on hold and 18kg on board for a total of 64Kg Vs. currently 72Kg on economy class. It is not likely for people to have 3 bags that heavy... so the total baggage per passenger will be reduced.

Next stop is to taxi the plane upon arrival and prior to departure on one engine like AA is currently doing.

bealine

The "pooling" part has not yet been agreed by Heathrow, but Gatwick will be implementing it initially - remember we are converting into the "Low Cost" model and need to show profits on the Short Haul network, difficult to achieve with these new fares unless we have a way of boosting our revenue! Passengers on this forum who use LoCos will realise that EasyJet and Ryanair do not allow pooling of baggage. Like most things, passengers accept EasyJet's and Ryanair's conditions, but when BA attempt something similar, people are up in arms!

By the way, whilst the 23kg limit may seem ridiculous, it is actually 25 years behind time in the European aviation industry! The EEC (that shows how long ago it was, as it has been the EC for years now) decreed in 1980 that any item of baggage, freight or cargo weighing more than 25kg should be marked with "a green crayon in a continuous line around the complete circumference and deemed as unfit to be carried or lifted by one person!"
To conform to EC standards, this weight limit of 23kg will be enforced across the industry to ensure we conform.


Sorry - my comment was not directed at you personally, or intended to cause offence to anyone! There are however, numerous occasions at present where people are travelling with over their allowance and not being charged. The money grabbing technique you describe is perfectly justifiable - we have destroyed two sources of our main profits - the reduction of our fares and the flexibility to change tickets at a low cost of £30 at the same time as having to pay dearly for fuel. Like any other business, BA is merely looking at areas where some of this lost revenue could be recovered - otherewise our loyal and patient shareholders will never get a dividend!

The "no-pooling" is purely because the new computer software will calculate "1 person - 1 bag <23 kg!!" Any variation to this, eg "1 person 2 bags 18kg" or "1 person - 1 bag 25kg" will result in an automatic excess baggage display on the computer and the check in process will halt until credit card details are entered for payment. Pooling passengers would make this new system unwieldy - not impossible I suppose to tweak the software to suit, but certainly difficult!

G-BOAC

Err...like the belief we'll get fed and watered included in the price in economy, or have pre-assigned seats, or get to fly from decent airports, or use covered jettys, etc., etc. this is precisely why many of us here who fly BA do not fly LoCos too/instead and put up with that kind of sh!te Just because LoCos do it, does not make it good or helpful or clever or ‘right’. Neither does it make sense all the time for the lucractive business travellers BA courts.

Like retaining a modicum of service and some basic tolerable humane conditions in Y, I for one would like to see more leadership from BA to start bucking the trend of making regular business travel an increasingly painful, soul-destroying experience...rather than them simply racing with the unimaginative and uninspired herd to the bottom

I still cannot see how any way you (again, not meant as 'you' bealine) slice or dice it, the 2x23 with a firm 23Kg limit makes any sense at all. I can see how a new flat limit of 30Kg spread over up to two bags makes sense to reduce fuel and costs as I said, but not this! Likewise, not allowing pooling on the same PNR because 'we basically can't be arsed to spend a bit more coding the system to cope with it' is just madness!

Phil

bealine

BA wants to change hand-baggage limits to a "size matters, not weight" policy - ie if the bag fits the gauge, it can go - if not, it's checked-in (and, if you're already up to the checked-baggage allowance, you pay the excess baggage charge.)

However, it is widely rumoured that the CAA will not allow this and will be asking the BAA to monitor hand-baggage in British airports from July this year with an absolute maximum of 7kg per passenger regardless of what airline you fly with or what the airline allows.