Stuck in NBO and need advice/help

Old Aug 28, 05, 12:57 am
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Stuck in NBO and need advice/help

I was supposed to fly NBO-LHR-YYZ in F yesterday (AA Award, if that matters) out of NBO and we were on the plane for about 5.5 hours while they were doing mechanical repairs before we were shuttled off to area hotels. The question I have is does BA have a US Rule 240 equivalent where they can rebook me on another airline? BA has caused me nothing but pain on this trip (lost luggage forcing me to delay my safari/cancel Zanzibar) and I really am dreading 17 hours back to YYZ of economy food in F and no spirits.

Thanks, DG
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Old Aug 28, 05, 1:02 am
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Probably not rebooking but you could probably get some compensation under the E.U. delay compensation rules.
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Old Aug 28, 05, 5:35 am
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Habari

You have my symathy. NBO is not a pleasant airport.

This sets out your rights with BA http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/..._poster_en.pdf

If I were you I would cash in my travel insurance, go to the Tamarind and order a delicious lunch and some crisp S Afican wine and phone up BA to see what they will do.
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Old Aug 28, 05, 8:07 am
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Supposedly the flight is taking off tonight, so we'll see if I actually make it back. Thanks for the tip on the EU passenger rights. I will file a claim for myself and my friend who was in NCW on the YYZ-LHR-NBO flight immediately when I return. Here's to hoping I get what I want tonight. Thanks all.
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Old Aug 29, 05, 8:33 am
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Day 2 of the broken 747 saga:

Last night we were on the plane for over 6 hours before we got off and went to various hotels. The flight was scheduled for 2245 and I got to the hotel around 0600 in the morning.

Back to back 5+ hour delays before cancellation must be some sort of record!

If anyone's in NBO I'm buying Tusker....
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Old Aug 29, 05, 9:48 am
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If its any help the delay is because of a thrust reverser problem and they're only cancelling the service when the crew run out of hours. They are trying to operate the flight, honestly!
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Old Aug 30, 05, 9:36 pm
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The first night we were on the plane for over 5 hours. The second night we were on the plane/jetbridge for 6+ hours. Would this count as one cancellation or two cancellations for EU claim purposes? Any shot at getting miles out of this? (this, on top of the catering strike and lost luggage for a few days)
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Old Aug 30, 05, 10:36 pm
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat
The question I have is does BA have a US Rule 240 equivalent where they can rebook me on another airline?
I know it's kinda late now, but to answer your question, yes, there is an equivalent rule, it's called Rule 80 and it applies to all IATA airlines (including BA). You can see a sample text of Rule 80 published by AS at http://www.alaskaair.com/www2/compan..._section1H.asp. Having read the text of BA's version of Rule 80 (they call it "Involuntary Reroutings"), I can say that it is very similar to the one above.

Most airlines, however, don't like to mention it and you will see that BA (just like most other airlines) makes no reference to it (or its principles) in the terms and conditions published on its website.
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Old Aug 31, 05, 12:03 am
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat
If anyone's in NBO I'm buying Tusker....
I'll be there next week on Wednesday for the morning NBO-LHR flight, but I really hope you'll be out of there by then
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Old Aug 31, 05, 2:23 am
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Originally Posted by KVS
I know it's kinda late now, but to answer your question, yes, there is an equivalent rule, it's called Rule 80 and it applies to all IATA airlines (including BA). You can see a sample text of Rule 80 published by AS at http://www.alaskaair.com/www2/compan..._section1H.asp. Having read the text of BA's version of Rule 80 (they call it "Involuntary Reroutings"), I can say that it is very similar to the one above.

Most airlines, however, don't like to mention it and you will see that BA (just like most other airlines) makes no reference to it (or its principles) in the terms and conditions published on its website.
If it is not in the published rules, then it does not form part of the contract and you have no right as such. It is merely an option at the discretion of BA and subject to your agreement. Your rights are what is published in the T&Cs, viz. 1) transportation on BA on the first of their flight with availability in the relevant class of travel or
2) transportation at a later date within the period of valiidity of the ticket
3) refund.
Incidentally, the extract from AS's T&Cs that you provided a link to would seem to suggest that, for AS too, carriage on another carrier is at carrier's option, not a right of the pax.

Pax have a right to re-routing, under the EU Reg, 'under comparable conditions to their final destination at the earliest opportunity'. It is not clear, however, whether 'at the earliest opportunity' means at the earliest opportunity on any carrier or at the earliest opportunity on same carrier.
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Old Aug 31, 05, 5:36 am
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Originally Posted by NickB
If it is not in the published rules, then it does not form part of the contract and you have no right as such.
As an IATA airline, BA also has to publish Tarrifs and the above-mentioned Rule 80 would, most likely, form a part of those Tarrifs (just like it does for AS).

As per the BA's Terms & Conditions,

If these conditions of carriage are inconsistent with any tariffs or laws which apply to your contract of carriage with us, the tariffs or laws will apply.
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Old Aug 31, 05, 5:52 am
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Originally Posted by KVS
As an IATA airline, BA also has to publish Tarrifs and the above-mentioned Rule 80 would, most likely, form a part of those Tarrifs (just like it does for AS).
But in your earlier post, you said:-
Originally Posted by KVS
Having read the text of BA's version of Rule 80 (they call it "Involuntary Reroutings"), I can say that it is very similar to the one above.
So have you seen BA's "Rule 80" or not? And if so, where? Why should it be in BA's tariffs (which would, I expect, be fare specific, not general) when AS puts it in their conditions of carriage?

In fact, is there any basis for thinking that BA is under any obligation other than what it says on the website, namely:-
9b) Remedies for delays and cancellations

9b1) We will take all reasonable measures necessary to avoid delay in carrying you and your baggage.

9b2) These measures may, in exceptional circumstances and if necessary to prevent a flight being cancelled, include arranging for a flight to be operated:
- by another aircraft
- by another airline or
- by both.

9b3) If we:
- cancel a flight;
- delay a flight by five hours or more;
- fail to stop at your place of stopover or destination; or
- cause you to miss a connecting flight on which you hold a confirmed reservation;
you can choose one of the three remedies set out immediately below.

Remedy 1
We will carry you as soon as we can to the destination shown on your ticket on another of our scheduled services on which a seat is available in the class of service for which you have paid the fare. If we do this, we will not charge you extra and where necessary, will extend the validity period of your ticket.
Remedy 2
We will carry you to the destination shown on your ticket in the class of service for which you have paid the fare at a later date at your convenience and within the validity period of your ticket on another of our scheduled services on which a seat is available. If we do this, we will not charge you extra.
Remedy 3
We will give or obtain for you an involuntary fare refund.

We will give you additional assistance, such as compensation, refreshments and other care and reimbursement, if required to do so by any law which may apply. We will have no further liability to you.
As NickB says, rerouting on another carrier is a customer service option, not a contractual matter.
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Old Aug 31, 05, 6:01 am
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Originally Posted by Globaliser
But in your earlier post, you said:-So have you seen BA's "Rule 80" or not? And if so, where?
It's in BA's "Silver Book" under the heading of "Involuntary Reroutings: Changes not requested by a passenger".

Originally Posted by Globaliser
Why should it be in BA's tariffs (which would, I expect, be fare specific, not general) when AS puts it in their conditions of carriage?
If you look at the AS's URL, you will see that it says "alaskaair.com/www2/company/tariff/international/tariff_intl_section1H.asp". It is not fare-specific and, not unlike most IATA regulations, it tends to favour the interests of the PAX, and not the airline.

Originally Posted by Globaliser
In fact, is there any basis for thinking that BA is under any obligation other than what it says on the website, namely:-
That quote is from BA's Terms & Conditions and, as I have mentioned above, as per BA's own admission, Tariff rules override the provisions contained in the Terms & Conditions.
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Old Aug 31, 05, 6:31 am
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Has anybody tried to ask BA for a complete copy of the tariff applicable to a booked flight? If it is part of the CoC, then BA must give you a copy on request. In the UK at least (and I would imagine most jurisdictions), IATA rules cannot, as betwen the pax and the airline, override contract law and, for it to be part of the contract, I must have access to it (whether I read it or not is, of course, another matter).
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Old Aug 31, 05, 6:49 am
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Originally Posted by KVS
It's in BA's "Silver Book" under the heading of "Involuntary Reroutings: Changes not requested by a passenger".
But the Silver Book isn't a contractual document. If I understand it correctly, it's a practical working guide for travel agents. In any case, given the wording in the version of the Silver Book that I have, I doubt that any contractual rule amounts to a "Rule 240"-type right to be re-routed on another carrier.

Like NickB, I'd also be interested to see any other document which amounts to a "tariff".
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