Disloyal BA Flyer wants to get status cheap!

Old Feb 24, 04, 5:08 pm
  #16  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Tango:
Dave: With all due respect, BA can do what it wants with its program but if it wants to remain a World Class airline it needs to do two things:
1)Be more competitive with their FF program, and 2)try to smooth out the problems of the airport mess when flying through London.

Whenever I fly to Europe and need to change planes, I avoid London at all costs. The problems I have to deal with are not worth it and BA goes out of their way to make you feel like a third World citizen.

If BA wants to cater to people just living in the UK that is ok with me. If they want to market themselves to people living outside of the UK they have much work to do.
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How can BA smooth out the problems at LHR?

It does not own any of the terminals, LHR as an airport is well over capacity.

Every time BA tries to acquire extra slots at LHR, or increase terminal presence, the likes of VS kick up a major stink.

If BA had its way, every one of its flights would be in one terminal....oh that would be the under construction terminal 5.

I will place money on the fact, that BA will not be sole residents in that terminal. There will be a a big stink, caused by other airlines, and at least one other airline will move in, and take up slots and gates.

LHR is never going to be a great airport to connect thru, hence why BA were looking at a merger with KLM. KLM is such a great position in AMS.

Sometimes the British sense of fairness, goes too far.

2018

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Old Feb 24, 04, 5:11 pm
  #17  
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1) This is something that effects a small minority and has little measurable effect on the world-class airline status

2) Now this is something that effects everybody, but will hopefully be solved inside 5 years by T5
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Old Feb 24, 04, 5:30 pm
  #18  
 
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1. LHR is a pain to connect at and adds hours to a US-Europe itinerary, whereby a connection at FRA, CDG (and I hate that airport!) or AMS would be quicker. LGW used to be a nice airport...

2. BA equipment is not 'superior' if you fly in 3rd World Traveller (last time I checked over 50% of the seats on any transatlantic flight). AA has MORE ROOM, NW has better IFE, UA has Economy+, and all offer 100% miles and 100% status miles on all coach fares. Yes, bring your own toothbrush, but I don't think that 50 cent BA amenity kit will cut it.
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Old Feb 24, 04, 5:30 pm
  #19  
 
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1) Required 4 BA flights a year to maintain status (not sure if the BA flights have to be tier point qualifying or not).

2) Cheap 'A' class tickets, typically to or via LAS is the best way. 60 points per segment now! Not the old 45 points.

3) Fly coast to coast (i.e. over 2000 miles) and use a AA VIPOW on a 2 class service. Apparently, AA VIPOWs book you into 'A' class and you get the full 150 tier points each segment. I've never done this before and don't know if it still works but have read it somewhere on FT.
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Old Feb 24, 04, 7:11 pm
  #20  
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bagold:
1) Required 4 BA flights a year to maintain status (not sure if the BA flights have to be tier point qualifying or not).

2) Cheap 'A' class tickets, typically to or via LAS is the best way. 60 points per segment now! Not the old 45 points.

3) Fly coast to coast (i.e. over 2000 miles) and use a AA VIPOW on a 2 class service. Apparently, AA VIPOWs book you into 'A' class and you get the full 150 tier points each segment. I've never done this before and don't know if it still works but have read it somewhere on FT.
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1. They have to be tier point qualifying I believe, but you can get 4 of them for 226 bucks total.
2. Good point.
3.The VIP upgrade thing essentially no longer works effective March 18th. Even now it is not a consisent item. Heck, sometimes it even gives you 25% flight miles when you upgrade from a full Y fare.
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Old Feb 25, 04, 12:44 am
  #21  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by bagold:
1) Required 4 BA flights a year to maintain status (not sure if the BA flights have to be tier point qualifying or not).

2) Cheap 'A' class tickets, typically to or via LAS is the best way. 60 points per segment now! Not the old 45 points.
</font>
How is that any different from what I already posted?
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Old Feb 25, 04, 1:32 am
  #22  
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"Dave: With all due respect, BA can do what it wants with its program but if it wants to remain a World Class airline it needs to do two things:
1)Be more competitive with their FF program,"

I don't necessarily agree. Most people seem not to be that interested in FF schemes. These fora are not a representative sample

"and 2)try to smooth out the problems of the airport mess when flying through London."

What sort of problems? Not tending to connect, I don't come across these issues...other than just disliking LHR in general

"If BA wants to cater to people just living in the UK that is ok with me. If they want to market themselves to people living outside of the UK they have much work to do"

Do you mean typical people living outside the UK or people living outside the UK with a FF mile addiction ( which does seem to me, to be a NA thing ). I know a lot of people who travel and do not care about points and are not interested in joining FF schemes. They are interested in the best price / flight timings together with decent quality

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Old Feb 25, 04, 1:58 am
  #23  
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BackOfTheBus:
2. BA equipment is not 'superior' if you fly in 3rd World Traveller (last time I checked over 50% of the seats on any transatlantic flight). AA has MORE ROOM, NW has better IFE, UA has Economy+, and all offer 100% miles and 100% status miles on all coach fares. Yes, bring your own toothbrush, but I don't think that 50 cent BA amenity kit will cut it.</font>
It will be one of those cultural things, but personally I'll take less room in BA economy over more cabin crew and ground crew "attitude" in AA economy. And so will many of my friends, virtually none of whom give two hoots about FF miles, and virtually all of whom tell me to shut up (and change the subject) whenever I start nagging them to sign up, to claim their missing miles, or to make sure that nothing expires. That's the real market out there, and BA seems to be doing fine from it.

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited Feb 25, 2004).]
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Old Feb 25, 04, 3:22 am
  #24  
 
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Aircraft flyers come in three colors:
1)The person who wants the cheapest seat they can find.
2)The person who wants the most direct routing and could care less about the price.
3)The FF type who puts lots of value into earning FF miles and is very loyal to their program/airlines in their alliance.

A smart airline is going to try to capture all of these types of flyers. Don't kid yourself by thinking only number 2 is important.

The London transit mess. While this may not be all of BA's fault, BA should work harder to try to fix it or they will continue to loose more passengers. I find it amazing that every other country has no problem with allowing super alliances to form except for England. I don't understand why all of the Star airlines can't move into terminal three and all of the OW airlines move into terminal 4--maybe that is why they are building terminal 5 for and I guess the move of AA into the N terminal at LGW will help but it still does not resolve the traffic holds/delays and the outdated infrastructure. To make matters worse, England charges some of the highest airport taxes---more than double vs some other airports in Europe. I realize this is only pocket change to the full fare flyer but it can make a big difference to the person trying to find the cheapest fare.

England has always been considered the key gateway airport to Europe. If they do not fix their problems, their connection traffic will slowly erode as more and more passengers opt to use superior airports elsewhere in Europe---leaving London as a O/D airport only--this would not bode well for BA.
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Old Feb 25, 04, 3:37 am
  #25  
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Many of the people I know that travel regularly -- more than just once a year & vacation types -- for business and leisure from the US, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Canada, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, China and a slew of other places factor in their frequent flier programs. Generally, the more sophisticated -- read, smarter -- the person, the more interested they are in the program pros and cons. A lot of these people know their favored program reasonably well and do not shop around. However, pull something like BA did within the last year, and the crowd -- larger in non-Euro travel circles -- start shopping based on price alone, which is a basis that no one wants to compete upon to the exclusion of all else, less the business be subject to pure commoditization.

Perhaps the demise of loyalty programs will lead to a hastening demise of the major flag carriers and the absolute conquest of marketshare by the low cost carriers of the world.

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited Feb 25, 2004).]
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Old Feb 25, 04, 5:53 am
  #26  
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by GUWonder:
Perhaps the demise of loyalty programs will lead to a hastening demise of the major flag carriers and the absolute conquest of marketshare by the low cost carriers of the world.</font>
The day we see that Irish prat launch a 777 with 11 across and 28" pitch from some field a long way outside of London to another field an equally long way outside of NYC, I'll believe that.... but it wont happen, the LCC model simply doesn't work on longhaul.
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Old Feb 25, 04, 5:58 am
  #27  
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dnw:
The day we see that Irish prat launch a 777 with 11 across and 28" pitch from some field a long way outside of London to another field an equally long way outside of NYC, I'll believe that</font>
dnw, you mean you haven't yet heard about the London-New York service from Ryanair?

You head down the M23....as far as Shoreham Aerodrome and then you arrive in Iowa.

The distance from the city the airport is gets magnified in proportion to the length of the route
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Old Feb 25, 04, 6:08 am
  #28  
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dnw:
The day we see that Irish prat launch a 777 with 11 across and 28" pitch from some field a long way outside of London to another field an equally long way outside of NYC, I'll believe that.... but it wont happen, the LCC model simply doesn't work on longhaul.</font>
I would have agreed with you but that European charter trip thing the EU citizens seem to love does not seem to be losing out to the national flag carriers ... and some of that is becoming increasingly longer haul (and is truly low cost if what I hear is correct).

LCC transoceanic carriers have not caught on yet (and failed in one American case I am aware of), but I can see BA coming pretty close to at least being a LP[rice]C.

Just wait until BA starts charging for toilets in the back. Correct change in Euros, Sterling or Dollars only! Then we will have replicated the 3rd World Traveller experience, soiled seats and all.

Of course, my beloved US-flagged carriers are already 3/4s of the way there.

[This message has been edited by GUWonder (edited Feb 25, 2004).]
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Old Feb 25, 04, 6:44 am
  #29  
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by dnw:
... but it wont happen, the LCC model simply doesn't work on longhaul.</font>
I truly hope you are right but the judgment of the traveling public has disappointed me too many times before.

[This message has been edited by BigKing (edited Feb 25, 2004).]
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Old Feb 25, 04, 7:24 am
  #30  
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Brittania tried charters from the UK to OZ a few years back - they had to pull it because the load factor needed to be so high to compete with what the scheduled carriers were offering. There simply wasn't any margin in it.

EAL are now doing the route in Winter for Austravel (another part of tui). They've got a 747 with 3 classes onboard I think. That means they can sell a rough J product upstairs for 2k, which presumably gives them the luxury to not get too wound up about the margin in the back of the bus.

I would say that we have some historic evidence of the LCC model having been applied unsuccessfully to long haul flights. It would appear that it can work with a mix of classes available.

The important thing to remember about the Florida flights is that the vast majority will be bought as part of a package. The tour operator might even have to stand a loss on the air ticket, but if they're cleaning up with hotel, hire car, park passes, excursions etc, all of which will be at negotiated rates and using the exchange rate of 3 years ago, they can probably afford to give you the flight for free*


*subject to tax and service charge
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