Should we be flying at all ?
Nov 17, 2003, 3:37 am
#1
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Should we be flying at all ?
From the Sun (take it whence it comes !)
"Revelations ... Richard Faulkner
recalls nights boozing with air crew
THE British Airways captain arrested after failing a cockpit breath test had a “fearsome” reputation for boozing, a former steward has revealed.
Richard Faulkner, himself sacked by BA for drinking in 1999, said pilot William McAuliffe encouraged wild all-night benders with his airline crews.
And he told how he once joined the 50-year-old airman — nicknamed Beefy — and five other crew members on a 14-HOUR pub crawl in Vienna, Austria.
Richard, 29, said last night: “If passengers had any idea how much they knocked back, they’d never get on the flight. “Drinking is a way of life at BA — it’s part of the culture.”
Richard, now a salesman, spoke out after The Sun told how McAuliffe and his 26-year-old co-pilot David Ryan were arrested before their jet was due to take off in Norway.
The pair and purser Michele Giannandrea, 48 — thought to have joined them in a club hours before — were yesterday suspended pending a BA probe. They were told the news when they arrived home as passengers on a Scandinavian Airways jet.
BA rules insist air crew drink no alcohol in the eight hours before a flight — and only in moderation in the previous 24. But Richard, who flew with “party animal” McAuliffe up to a dozen times, told how he once saw the pilot down ten pints of Guinness and several whiskies hours before flying to London.
Describing the 1997 booze bender in Vienna, he said: “After landing, we hit town about 12.30pm and went to a bar. “It was a big session that night. William was on form and I was drinking the local brew.” The party stayed out till 2.30am, then returned to their hotel to sleep before being picked up three hours later for their flight.
Richard, from Old Windsor, Berks, overslept —delaying their airport bus by ten minutes.
Of another marathon session in Geneva in the same year, he said: “William was on the early shift, I was on the late. “He’d been drinking in the hotel bar all afternoon and I left him in there at midnight.”
Richard, fired in 1999 for sleeping off a hangover on a flight, wants air crew boozers axed. He said: “I’m appalled BA haven’t clamped down on this.” A BA stewardess who also flew with McAuliffe claimed young co-pilots “dreaded” flying with him. She said: “It’s no secret Bill likes a drink. When a co-pilot’s rostered with him, he knows he’ll get a hangover. “Bill puts them under pressure to join him on the town.”
TOUGH new rules banning airline pilots from boozing have been law since July but have not been enforced. Flight crews must not have more than 20milligrammes of alcohol per 100millilitres of blood in their system — a quarter of the drink driving limit. It means they cannot consume more than one unit of alcohol — about half a pint of beer or a glass of wine before flying. But the Department For Transport admits the new law is in limbo because testing equipment has not been approved and cops are not trained to use it.
Crews are already covered by Civil Aviation Authority rules which mean they could be jailed for up to two years if drink or drugs have impaired their ability to fly. But it is hard to enforce because there is no fixed limit. The new law carries the same penalty. Transport officials say it will begin to be enforced in the next few months. Most airlines already ban alcohol consumption at least eight hours prior to departure.
From JAMIE PYATT
in Oslo
THE co-pilot arrested was FIVE TIMES over Norway’s strict drink-drive limits, it emerged yesterday. First Officer David Ryan, 26, was taken off the British Airways Airbus A-320 along with captain William McAuliffe, 50, and purser Michele Giannandrea, 48, after a preliminary test.
The three were then told to take another breath test at a police station — but only Ryan managed it. Police estimated his reading as 99milligrammes of alcohol in 100millilitres of blood — compared to the limit of 20milligrammes. Even under British law, he would have broken the drink-drive limit of 80milligrammes. All three crew had to give a blood sample two hours later once a doctor had arrived. The results will be known in two weeks. Cops had been called after a ground crew member said the flight deck “reeked of alcohol”.
The 55 passengers due to fly from Oslo to Heathrow at 7.45am on Tuesday were told flight BA-761 was cancelled.
Last night Supt John Langhelle said the three faced up to two years in jail. He added: “They said they went to a pub close to their hotel and had a few beers. They returned at 10pm and had no more alcohol at all. “For alcohol to register the next day they must have had quite a lot, or perhaps they had their last drink a little bit later than they remembered.”
A worker at the Clarion Hotel Royal Christiania said Ryan had drunk so much he could not be raised that morning. A member of staff had to bang on his door while his colleagues waited outside. The employee added: “He smelt of alcohol and did not look in a fit state to fly.”
DO you know any of the BA boozers? Call 0207 782 4105 — we’ll call you straight back.
"Revelations ... Richard Faulkner
recalls nights boozing with air crew
THE British Airways captain arrested after failing a cockpit breath test had a “fearsome” reputation for boozing, a former steward has revealed.
Richard Faulkner, himself sacked by BA for drinking in 1999, said pilot William McAuliffe encouraged wild all-night benders with his airline crews.
And he told how he once joined the 50-year-old airman — nicknamed Beefy — and five other crew members on a 14-HOUR pub crawl in Vienna, Austria.
Richard, 29, said last night: “If passengers had any idea how much they knocked back, they’d never get on the flight. “Drinking is a way of life at BA — it’s part of the culture.”
Richard, now a salesman, spoke out after The Sun told how McAuliffe and his 26-year-old co-pilot David Ryan were arrested before their jet was due to take off in Norway.
The pair and purser Michele Giannandrea, 48 — thought to have joined them in a club hours before — were yesterday suspended pending a BA probe. They were told the news when they arrived home as passengers on a Scandinavian Airways jet.
BA rules insist air crew drink no alcohol in the eight hours before a flight — and only in moderation in the previous 24. But Richard, who flew with “party animal” McAuliffe up to a dozen times, told how he once saw the pilot down ten pints of Guinness and several whiskies hours before flying to London.
Describing the 1997 booze bender in Vienna, he said: “After landing, we hit town about 12.30pm and went to a bar. “It was a big session that night. William was on form and I was drinking the local brew.” The party stayed out till 2.30am, then returned to their hotel to sleep before being picked up three hours later for their flight.
Richard, from Old Windsor, Berks, overslept —delaying their airport bus by ten minutes.
Of another marathon session in Geneva in the same year, he said: “William was on the early shift, I was on the late. “He’d been drinking in the hotel bar all afternoon and I left him in there at midnight.”
Richard, fired in 1999 for sleeping off a hangover on a flight, wants air crew boozers axed. He said: “I’m appalled BA haven’t clamped down on this.” A BA stewardess who also flew with McAuliffe claimed young co-pilots “dreaded” flying with him. She said: “It’s no secret Bill likes a drink. When a co-pilot’s rostered with him, he knows he’ll get a hangover. “Bill puts them under pressure to join him on the town.”
TOUGH new rules banning airline pilots from boozing have been law since July but have not been enforced. Flight crews must not have more than 20milligrammes of alcohol per 100millilitres of blood in their system — a quarter of the drink driving limit. It means they cannot consume more than one unit of alcohol — about half a pint of beer or a glass of wine before flying. But the Department For Transport admits the new law is in limbo because testing equipment has not been approved and cops are not trained to use it.
Crews are already covered by Civil Aviation Authority rules which mean they could be jailed for up to two years if drink or drugs have impaired their ability to fly. But it is hard to enforce because there is no fixed limit. The new law carries the same penalty. Transport officials say it will begin to be enforced in the next few months. Most airlines already ban alcohol consumption at least eight hours prior to departure.
From JAMIE PYATT
in Oslo
THE co-pilot arrested was FIVE TIMES over Norway’s strict drink-drive limits, it emerged yesterday. First Officer David Ryan, 26, was taken off the British Airways Airbus A-320 along with captain William McAuliffe, 50, and purser Michele Giannandrea, 48, after a preliminary test.
The three were then told to take another breath test at a police station — but only Ryan managed it. Police estimated his reading as 99milligrammes of alcohol in 100millilitres of blood — compared to the limit of 20milligrammes. Even under British law, he would have broken the drink-drive limit of 80milligrammes. All three crew had to give a blood sample two hours later once a doctor had arrived. The results will be known in two weeks. Cops had been called after a ground crew member said the flight deck “reeked of alcohol”.
The 55 passengers due to fly from Oslo to Heathrow at 7.45am on Tuesday were told flight BA-761 was cancelled.
Last night Supt John Langhelle said the three faced up to two years in jail. He added: “They said they went to a pub close to their hotel and had a few beers. They returned at 10pm and had no more alcohol at all. “For alcohol to register the next day they must have had quite a lot, or perhaps they had their last drink a little bit later than they remembered.”
A worker at the Clarion Hotel Royal Christiania said Ryan had drunk so much he could not be raised that morning. A member of staff had to bang on his door while his colleagues waited outside. The employee added: “He smelt of alcohol and did not look in a fit state to fly.”
DO you know any of the BA boozers? Call 0207 782 4105 — we’ll call you straight back.
Nov 17, 2003, 3:44 am
#2
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Frequentflyer99:
DO you know any of the BA boozers? Call 0207 782 4105 — we’ll call you straight back</font>
DO you know any of the BA boozers? Call 0207 782 4105 — we’ll call you straight back</font>
Nov 17, 2003, 3:54 am
#3
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by fbgdavidson:
This is very low <IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsdown.gif"> <IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsdown.gif">
</font>
This is very low <IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsdown.gif"> <IMG SRC="http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsdown.gif">
</font>
Nov 17, 2003, 4:11 am
#4
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Frequentflyer99:
When a co-pilot’s rostered with him, he knows he’ll get a hangover. “Bill puts them under pressure to join him on the town.”</font>
When a co-pilot’s rostered with him, he knows he’ll get a hangover. “Bill puts them under pressure to join him on the town.”</font>
Nov 17, 2003, 4:11 am
#5
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Frequentflyer99:
Agreed, but on the other hand, would you want one of these p***heads actually flying you ???
</font>
Agreed, but on the other hand, would you want one of these p***heads actually flying you ???
</font>
Imagine the headline "BA Pilot gets bladdered at wedding". The article would make a big deal out of the pilot drinking a skinful of beer. What it won't say is that he is on holiday, or won't be flying for another 72 hours, or whatever.
Nov 17, 2003, 5:54 am
#6
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Bring in statutory breathalysing. Now. All crew - no exceptions. That would stop it overnight.
Why don't they? Well the poor hard-done-by bunnies on the flight deck will take exception and strike, you watch! The cabin crew will fall in line - as usual.
I think that it is a disgraceful state of affairs. But until the CAA shows some guts, BA will drag their feet. I wonder what they do over at Virgin and BM?
Why don't they? Well the poor hard-done-by bunnies on the flight deck will take exception and strike, you watch! The cabin crew will fall in line - as usual.
I think that it is a disgraceful state of affairs. But until the CAA shows some guts, BA will drag their feet. I wonder what they do over at Virgin and BM?
Nov 17, 2003, 6:18 am
#7
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Frequentflyer99:
Agreed, but on the other hand, would you want one of these p***heads actually flying you ???
</font>
Agreed, but on the other hand, would you want one of these p***heads actually flying you ???
</font>
Nov 17, 2003, 8:23 am
#8
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Not only is it gutter journalism, it's also ridiculously sensationalist.
If the co-pilot had been breathalysed just half an hour later or so, his alcohol level would have been down below the 80mg drink drive limit in the UK.
The article makes the offence sound much worse because they are basing it on the Norwegian limits. It doesn't quite have the same impact when stated that he was 1.25 times over the UK drink-drive limit!!!
I am not condoning drinking and flying, but you are not pi$$ed at just 99mg. That's not even a pint and a half of strong lager. If you were caught on a UK road at that level they would not even charge you.
If the co-pilot had been breathalysed just half an hour later or so, his alcohol level would have been down below the 80mg drink drive limit in the UK.
The article makes the offence sound much worse because they are basing it on the Norwegian limits. It doesn't quite have the same impact when stated that he was 1.25 times over the UK drink-drive limit!!!
I am not condoning drinking and flying, but you are not pi$$ed at just 99mg. That's not even a pint and a half of strong lager. If you were caught on a UK road at that level they would not even charge you.
Nov 17, 2003, 11:02 am
#9
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Although this is undoubtedly gutter journalism, please do not be misled by Oysters comments. The limit is 80mg in blood, so if you were caught at 99mg on the road you would be charged and would be disqualified for a minimum of 12 months if convicted.
Nov 17, 2003, 12:02 pm
#10
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by oyster:
I am not condoning drinking and flying, but you are not pi$$ed at just 99mg. That's not even a pint and a half of strong lager. If you were caught on a UK road at that level they would not even charge you.</font>
I am not condoning drinking and flying, but you are not pi$$ed at just 99mg. That's not even a pint and a half of strong lager. If you were caught on a UK road at that level they would not even charge you.</font>
Nov 17, 2003, 3:14 pm
#11
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by PUCCI GALORE:
Bring in statutory breathalysing. Now. All crew - no exceptions. That would stop it overnight.</font>
Bring in statutory breathalysing. Now. All crew - no exceptions. That would stop it overnight.</font>
Nov 17, 2003, 3:31 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
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It is very heartening to see that our customers do regard this article as sensational gutter-press ravings! Thank you for your support!
Pucci is right! She and I both know that absolutely none of our Flight Crew members would take control of an aircraft knowing that they had had one too many! Your safety is of paramount importance!
It is never pleasant to watch BA's name being dragged through the mud, but the Oslo crew are still friends and colleagues until such time as their guilt is established beyond all reasonable doubt! If they are indeed culpable, then they deserve all they get!
Pucci is right! She and I both know that absolutely none of our Flight Crew members would take control of an aircraft knowing that they had had one too many! Your safety is of paramount importance!
It is never pleasant to watch BA's name being dragged through the mud, but the Oslo crew are still friends and colleagues until such time as their guilt is established beyond all reasonable doubt! If they are indeed culpable, then they deserve all they get!
Nov 18, 2003, 3:43 am
#13
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by The Disco Volante:
Although this is undoubtedly gutter journalism, please do not be misled by Oysters comments. The limit is 80mg in blood, so if you were caught at 99mg on the road you would be charged and would be disqualified for a minimum of 12 months if convicted.</font>
Although this is undoubtedly gutter journalism, please do not be misled by Oysters comments. The limit is 80mg in blood, so if you were caught at 99mg on the road you would be charged and would be disqualified for a minimum of 12 months if convicted.</font>
Let me re-iterate, I NEVER touch a drop of alcohol before I drive - not even one sip. But I just want to stop this awful sensationalism that seems to be evident on this thread. 99mg is equivalent to a very small amount of alcoholic drink. To use phrases like "reeked of alcohol", "pi$$ed" etc is pure lies and exaggeration.
Nov 18, 2003, 2:36 pm
#14
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Oyster, I think I am right. It is possible that I am mistaken, but the limits in my post above are correct (I have checked them). Your post suggests that you have some knowledge of procedure, as opposed to the legislation, which means that the limits are not strictly enforced. I would be grateful if you could explain why you think that this is so, and in particular if you could set out the case law on which you rely. I am not aware of any case law to suggest that the blood alcohol limits are not strictly enforced (although with breath alcohol it is the policy not to prosecute a reading below 40ug when the limit is infact 35ug). In the meantime, I would suggest to anyone reading these admittedly off topic posts that the suggestion that you would not be charged for a reading of 99mg in blood is misleading.
I dont follow your reasoning on the appeal point either. Can you explain further?
I dont follow your reasoning on the appeal point either. Can you explain further?
Nov 18, 2003, 3:06 pm
#15
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It's been a while since I last looked at this in detail, but IIRC it goes a bit like this.
Breath - 35µg/100ml of breath is the limit. The machine gives you an exact reading. Because of the possibility of error etc., readings of less than 40µg are not prosecuted. Readings of less than 50µg lead to an option to give an alternative specimen, although once you've chosen to go for an alternative it's then up to the police whether you give urine or blood.
Blood - 80mg/100ml of blood is the limit. The specimen has to be analysed by a lab. The lab automatically deducts a certain figure from that which the analysis produces to allow for error. The margin allowed on a breath specimen (see above) is comparable to the margin which has traditionally been deducted at this point. The analysis figure returned to the police is therefore without doubt the minimum concentration of alcohol in that specimen of blood. In most cases, of course, the concentration will have been higher than that quoted. Therefore, if the lab says "at least 80mg", you'll get done.
[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited Nov 18, 2003).]
Breath - 35µg/100ml of breath is the limit. The machine gives you an exact reading. Because of the possibility of error etc., readings of less than 40µg are not prosecuted. Readings of less than 50µg lead to an option to give an alternative specimen, although once you've chosen to go for an alternative it's then up to the police whether you give urine or blood.
Blood - 80mg/100ml of blood is the limit. The specimen has to be analysed by a lab. The lab automatically deducts a certain figure from that which the analysis produces to allow for error. The margin allowed on a breath specimen (see above) is comparable to the margin which has traditionally been deducted at this point. The analysis figure returned to the police is therefore without doubt the minimum concentration of alcohol in that specimen of blood. In most cases, of course, the concentration will have been higher than that quoted. Therefore, if the lab says "at least 80mg", you'll get done.
[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited Nov 18, 2003).]