Warning - Children in Club
Jun 17, 2003, 1:36 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London
Programs: A variety of precious-metal themed cards; MUCCI
Posts: 602
Oh to be a child in 2003!
Unlike today's children, my first experience of business and first class came with my first adult job. Until then, it was economy class all the way - and I was delighted since most of my friends hardly ever flew at all. My father used to trade the company's first class ticket in so he could take all 6 of us on a combined business trip and holiday. We went on a RTW once because he had business to do SIN, HKG and NYC - in coach, all the way around the world in 21 days.
These days, my father has a young second family, and guess how they fly - yes, business class all the way!
What happened? Is it because economy became so grim over the last twenty years as legroom dwindled from 34 inches to 31 or less? Did business class fares fall substantially in real terms? Are all parents simply enormously wealthy today? Because I note that I have enough sticker shock just from flying my girlfriend around. If I had to pay over £10,000 to fly a family of four in J on a long-haul flight I might start feeling a bit sorry for myself. But I guess it makes school fees look cheap...
Unlike today's children, my first experience of business and first class came with my first adult job. Until then, it was economy class all the way - and I was delighted since most of my friends hardly ever flew at all. My father used to trade the company's first class ticket in so he could take all 6 of us on a combined business trip and holiday. We went on a RTW once because he had business to do SIN, HKG and NYC - in coach, all the way around the world in 21 days.
These days, my father has a young second family, and guess how they fly - yes, business class all the way!
What happened? Is it because economy became so grim over the last twenty years as legroom dwindled from 34 inches to 31 or less? Did business class fares fall substantially in real terms? Are all parents simply enormously wealthy today? Because I note that I have enough sticker shock just from flying my girlfriend around. If I had to pay over £10,000 to fly a family of four in J on a long-haul flight I might start feeling a bit sorry for myself. But I guess it makes school fees look cheap...
Jun 17, 2003, 2:17 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Greg66:
To give a view from the other side of the fence...
We've travelled a few times with our oldest (now 3) in Business on BA and AC, and once with both our children (now 3 and 1) in NCW (we've got another NCW trip coming up - I won't scare anyone off by posting dates!). We've also taken them both in WT+ a few times. All of these flights have been long haul - West Coast NA. We've had other flights in Europe in economy.
I don't think I've ever travelled in a premium cabin with the children without an overpowering sense of foreboding. It's really quite grim, and can stop me enjoying the flight. However, the truth is rarely as bad as the anticipation. Generally, the 3 yr old is fine - she watches TV and curls up.
The problems mostly have come more from the younger child, or the older one when she was at that age. At 1-2 they're still at an age when they can sometimes cry for no apparent reason, and certainly can cry from being overtired but not able to get themselves to sleep. Some children need "cues" to get them to sleep - music, lighting, their home bed, etc. It's tough to work around that on a plane. Moreover, air travel is still exciting, if you're a kid! It can be hard to get to sleep when you're excited.
No matter how irritating you might think it is to have a crying baby/toddler in the cabin with you, it's quite a bit worse when it's your child, they're crying next to your head, you can't do anything to placate them (let alone given your fellow pax some peace!), *and* you've paid 110% of the seat price for the privilege.
So, spare a thought for the parent next time you hear a baby/toddler crying in a premium cabin. I get the impression that some of the seasoned travellers here harbour suspicions that parents ***** their charges with sharp objects just for the hell of p*ssing everyone else off - it's just not like that!
Personally, I can't wait until their old enough to travel alone in econ (which they would love as (a) it will still seem like an enormous seat, and (b) it will give them independence from M&D) and we can travel up front. But's that's a way off.</font>
To give a view from the other side of the fence...
We've travelled a few times with our oldest (now 3) in Business on BA and AC, and once with both our children (now 3 and 1) in NCW (we've got another NCW trip coming up - I won't scare anyone off by posting dates!). We've also taken them both in WT+ a few times. All of these flights have been long haul - West Coast NA. We've had other flights in Europe in economy.
I don't think I've ever travelled in a premium cabin with the children without an overpowering sense of foreboding. It's really quite grim, and can stop me enjoying the flight. However, the truth is rarely as bad as the anticipation. Generally, the 3 yr old is fine - she watches TV and curls up.
The problems mostly have come more from the younger child, or the older one when she was at that age. At 1-2 they're still at an age when they can sometimes cry for no apparent reason, and certainly can cry from being overtired but not able to get themselves to sleep. Some children need "cues" to get them to sleep - music, lighting, their home bed, etc. It's tough to work around that on a plane. Moreover, air travel is still exciting, if you're a kid! It can be hard to get to sleep when you're excited.
No matter how irritating you might think it is to have a crying baby/toddler in the cabin with you, it's quite a bit worse when it's your child, they're crying next to your head, you can't do anything to placate them (let alone given your fellow pax some peace!), *and* you've paid 110% of the seat price for the privilege.
So, spare a thought for the parent next time you hear a baby/toddler crying in a premium cabin. I get the impression that some of the seasoned travellers here harbour suspicions that parents ***** their charges with sharp objects just for the hell of p*ssing everyone else off - it's just not like that!
Personally, I can't wait until their old enough to travel alone in econ (which they would love as (a) it will still seem like an enormous seat, and (b) it will give them independence from M&D) and we can travel up front. But's that's a way off.</font>
As a FF with a 19 month-old daughter (and another shortly on the way) who has clocked up a lot of miles so far, I'm always slightly on edge when we step into a premium cabin.
Fortunately, she is a v ery good air traveller and generally passes out pretty quickly.
Jun 17, 2003, 2:55 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sydney, Aus
Programs: QF WP, Starwood Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club, Amex Platinum
Posts: 2,880
I don't have anything against children say three three or over. Once they get to this age, they are able to control the pressure in their own ears, and therefore do not tend to cry the whole way .... they generally sleep much more than the adults do ...
What does annoy me though (although, I know there's not much the parents can do about it, so I live with it), is a crying child on an overnight flight. Most recently, I was in F from JFK to LHR, with a 9:00am meeting. Needless to say, I didn't get any sleep on the flight due to a crying child sitting behind me. Why pay for F when I was unable to sleep ? I didn't have any food or drink (other than water) on the plane as all I intended to do was sleep.
What does annoy me though (although, I know there's not much the parents can do about it, so I live with it), is a crying child on an overnight flight. Most recently, I was in F from JFK to LHR, with a 9:00am meeting. Needless to say, I didn't get any sleep on the flight due to a crying child sitting behind me. Why pay for F when I was unable to sleep ? I didn't have any food or drink (other than water) on the plane as all I intended to do was sleep.
Jun 17, 2003, 3:01 am
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by edi-traveller:
And seeing a five year old curled up in an old cradle seat certainly makes them look big.</font>
And seeing a five year old curled up in an old cradle seat certainly makes them look big.</font>
Jun 17, 2003, 6:30 am
#20
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: everywhere, BA Gold, LH, etc. etc.
Posts: 467
The vast majority of children are well behaved and a credit to their parents.
Those that are not, are generally bored/feeling unwell/uncomfortable and, as children, deserve the attention of adults to rectify the situation. Like everyone else here, I have sometimes been kept awake by an irritable child, but this is a fact of life which has to be accepted: sometimes kids get cranky, as it is often the only way they know to express their frustration with whatever circumstances they happen to be in.
What I do find upsetting, from both a social-responsibility and a parenting point of view, is parents who make no effort to placate their offspring. If the child is bored, pay him/her some attention - read a book together, play a game, colour a picture; if the child is unwell, soothe him/her - get up and walk around, occupy them! Bottom line (I think I got flamed for saying this a few months back in a different forum), parents should take responsibility for their children .
That said, I fully accept there are sometimes circumstances where the little darlings simply won't be placated, whatever attempts are made. But I would never complain about a child's presence in a cabin, whether S, F or Y (but I might about a non-responsive parent).
Those that are not, are generally bored/feeling unwell/uncomfortable and, as children, deserve the attention of adults to rectify the situation. Like everyone else here, I have sometimes been kept awake by an irritable child, but this is a fact of life which has to be accepted: sometimes kids get cranky, as it is often the only way they know to express their frustration with whatever circumstances they happen to be in.
What I do find upsetting, from both a social-responsibility and a parenting point of view, is parents who make no effort to placate their offspring. If the child is bored, pay him/her some attention - read a book together, play a game, colour a picture; if the child is unwell, soothe him/her - get up and walk around, occupy them! Bottom line (I think I got flamed for saying this a few months back in a different forum), parents should take responsibility for their children .
That said, I fully accept there are sometimes circumstances where the little darlings simply won't be placated, whatever attempts are made. But I would never complain about a child's presence in a cabin, whether S, F or Y (but I might about a non-responsive parent).
Jun 22, 2003, 2:03 am
#21
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: everywhere, BA Gold, LH, etc. etc.
Posts: 467
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Dr. Zhivago:
The vast majority of children are well behaved and a credit to their parents.
Those that are not, are generally bored/feeling unwell/uncomfortable and, as children, deserve the attention of adults to rectify the situation. Like everyone else here, I have sometimes been kept awake by an irritable child, but this is a fact of life which has to be accepted: sometimes kids get cranky, as it is often the only way they know to express their frustration with whatever circumstances they happen to be in.
What I do find upsetting, from both a social-responsibility and a parenting point of view, is parents who make no effort to placate their offspring. If the child is bored, pay him/her some attention - read a book together, play a game, colour a picture; if the child is unwell, soothe him/her - get up and walk around, occupy them! Bottom line (I think I got flamed for saying this a few months back in a different forum), parents should take responsibility for their children .
That said, I fully accept there are sometimes circumstances where the little darlings simply won't be placated, whatever attempts are made. But I would never complain about a child's presence in a cabin, whether S, F or Y (but I might about a non-responsive parent).[/B]</font>
The vast majority of children are well behaved and a credit to their parents.
Those that are not, are generally bored/feeling unwell/uncomfortable and, as children, deserve the attention of adults to rectify the situation. Like everyone else here, I have sometimes been kept awake by an irritable child, but this is a fact of life which has to be accepted: sometimes kids get cranky, as it is often the only way they know to express their frustration with whatever circumstances they happen to be in.
What I do find upsetting, from both a social-responsibility and a parenting point of view, is parents who make no effort to placate their offspring. If the child is bored, pay him/her some attention - read a book together, play a game, colour a picture; if the child is unwell, soothe him/her - get up and walk around, occupy them! Bottom line (I think I got flamed for saying this a few months back in a different forum), parents should take responsibility for their children .
That said, I fully accept there are sometimes circumstances where the little darlings simply won't be placated, whatever attempts are made. But I would never complain about a child's presence in a cabin, whether S, F or Y (but I might about a non-responsive parent).[/B]</font>
I was on the 873 from Moscow yesterday - absolutely chock-a-block with a mix of businessmen/tourists/new adoptive parents ferrying their new charges back to the US.
One poor little mite (but not an adoptee, I hasten to stress) was exceptionally distressed, and was expressing this by kicking my seat quite violently. Stuck on a full plane, with nowhere to go, and mindful of my comments on this forum, I tried to make things a bit easier on the parents by leaving my seat upright (a little more room for the little darling) and not adding to what was, for them, an already tense situation. Dad was doing his level best, walking round the aircraft with curlylocks resting on his shoulder (and arms and legs literally flailing everywhere - one or two of us actually ducked to avoid a foot in th eear!), but as soon as he returned to the seat, Little Angel would restart. This went on until about one hour out from London, when things miraculously went quiet.
Sure, it caused me a minor inconvenience - I couldn't put my seat back all the way, - and yes, I got kicked a few times. BIG DEAL! But when I remember travelling with my own daughter at that age, and when I think of all the joy she has given my wife and me, and when I see young parents doing their level best to placate their child, I think we would all do well to remember we were all kids once, and this youngster is only trying (and, admittedly, failing) to communicate something to his parents the only way he knows.
Anyway, my thanks to the parents for doing their best
BTW, there were, as I said, a lot of new adoptive parents on the 'plane, most with babes sleeping soundly in their arms/on their shoulders etc. But I did see a few looks of horror on their faces as it dawned on them, just what they may have to deal with as their new sons and daughters begin to grow up!
[This message has been edited by Dr. Zhivago (edited 06-22-2003).]
Jun 22, 2003, 5:14 am
#22
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, LH Sen, MUCCI, Junior Jet Club.
Posts: 8,101
Interesting comments. Has anyone discovered the tranquillizing properties of the Harry Potter books....especially with the new volume. Not surprisingly, magic in keeping children peaceful.
I do confess to screaming my lungs out from Mombasa-Nairobi in an unidentifiable BA premium product when I was about two; although according to my mother after a liqueur chocolate procured from the ever-attendant steward, I slept like a babe all the way to London Airport....
[This message has been edited by BahrainLad (edited 06-22-2003).]
I do confess to screaming my lungs out from Mombasa-Nairobi in an unidentifiable BA premium product when I was about two; although according to my mother after a liqueur chocolate procured from the ever-attendant steward, I slept like a babe all the way to London Airport....
[This message has been edited by BahrainLad (edited 06-22-2003).]
Jun 22, 2003, 5:24 am
#23
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: BNE, Australia...not too far from the nearest Qantas Pub err Club
Posts: 3,636
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BahrainLad:
...I slept like a babe...</font>
...I slept like a babe...</font>
Jun 23, 2003, 6:14 pm
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 15,788
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BahrainLad:
Interesting comments. Has anyone discovered the tranquillizing properties of the Harry Potter books....especially with the new volume.</font>
Interesting comments. Has anyone discovered the tranquillizing properties of the Harry Potter books....especially with the new volume.</font>
At 6.6 Kg, I can imagine how a whack with Volume V would be tranquilizing!