Jenbel

I got asked where I was going last time I came back in at Manchester - stupidly I told them, next time I'm just answering 'home'

But TBH, I'm always quite relieved when I hear our immigration are bad - it pacifies me about the rubbish I go through when going into or transiting through the US. And our customs people are nowhere near as bad

TexasCorp

Sorry, although US Customs might come close to winning a not nice attitude prize the UK version of pseudo Immigration Officers has to take the cake of just plain awful! Really is no two ways about it!




Texas expat in London

ajax

On reflection, I think the argument about whose IOs are the worst is a bit silly. At the end of the day, most IOs are underpaid and underutilised civil servants who probably went into their jobs with an idealistic view of helping their country and who became jaded after about 15 minutes on the job.

I've never, ever met a stroppy IO and I've crossed hundreds, perhaps over a thousand, international borders. I have American mates who've got stroppy IOs more than half of the times they've entered Britain.

The US IOs have a bit of a reputation, but a lot of it is the government policies, not the actual people. As has been pointed out above, many IOs are bound by law to ask certain questions. This is beyond their control.

Remember that the IOs are probably the worst side of entering a country; we all visit other countries despite the IOs and that's how it should stay.

Globaliser

In some ways, I'd almost rather be asked some stupid questions by some IOs. The last time I entered the US (about three weeks ago), my partner and I went through together. The IO managed to process both of us without uttering one single word during the entire process. In a masterpiece of dramatic arts, though, he simultaneously conveyed utter sullenness by his body language.

Welcome to the USA!

OTOH, about 75% of Australian customs officers doing the immigration checks are chirpy and friendly to me - quite a reliable welcome to Oz.

The Saint

It's part of the game.

We all have to be polite and bite our lips when we encounter rude ignorant IOs in other countries because they have an amazing amount of power and p*ssing them off may have severe unwanted consequences.

If the UK IOs behave like some foreign ones I have encountered then that is a disgrace and as a British Citizen I am ashamed of them and the attitude they send out about us and our country.

Which is why, when you return home and you encounter a rude or unpleasant IO, you should not hold back. As a British Citizen returning home, I don't have to put up with rudeness from an IO or (for that matter) answering a string of nonsense questions. This is my country, I have a right of abode and I'm coming in.

One famous occasion, an IO at Gatwick barked at me "Stand in front of the counter" (people were essentially stopping to the side before walking through the gap). When she'd finished glancing at my passport, I said "You need to adopt a more customer friendly attitude. Shouting rudely at people is unacceptable, wherever they might come from."

We owe it to the visitors to our country to confront this sort of attitude and where necessary complain about it. Only then might things change.

The Saint

My experience too.

On my last entry to the US, the IO flicked through my passport and noted the large number of Egyptian stamps (mostly related to diving in SSH). He points at them and says:

"Sir, what is this writing?"

I say, "It's arabic".

"Sir, why are you going to A-rab countries?"

I explain about diving and am then processed, but it is depressing to think what fear and prejudice is disclosed by that questionning.

Phil the Flyer

It just goes to show how people can have different experiences in similar situations.

My British passport is likewise swamped with Egyptian entry/exit visas; through my work in that country. When my family and I cleared US Immigration at JFK T7 six weeks ago, not only did the Immigration officer engage me in friendly conversation about what it was like to work in Egypt - he also complemented me for the 'incredible neatness' with which I had handwritten the immigration cards!

Not that I am racially or colour prejudice - if you knew my personal circumstances you would know this to be true - but as one of a long line of British citizens going back at least twelve generations (my sister is into researching our family tree) even I couldn't help a wry smile when I cleared UK Immigration at LHR T4 recently, to find the only two desks for EU passport holders manned by a gentleman wearing a turban and a Muslim lady of Middle Eastern appearance wearing a headscarf etc. I guess it's a sign of the times.

jhm

Whilst I have a general idea of my rights and obligations as a citizen and I would agree with the above in theory, I do wonder whether in practice a IO can still make things difficult even if ultimately s/he has to let you into the country ? For example, if I turn up at the checkpoint and give nonsensical answers to questions or refuse to say a single word but do carry a British passport, can the IO temporarily detain me until s/he is satisfied that I'm the person who the passport belongs to ?

bizgeez

Being married to a UK Immigration Officer I thought I'd answer a few questions.

1. They hate having to swipe Brit passports, but Mr Blair and his team want all Brits checked for Customs, Police and people trafficking intelligence purposes.

2. Their job description makes the job "negative" and actually states that they are to refuse entry to as many who do not qualify as possible, i.e. the person in front of you has to prove to you they are acceptable for entry! This surprisingly sees huge numbers of US/AUS businessmen/women being refused and sent straight back for basic things such as a lack of visa to accompany their work permit! Also the number of US nationals claiming asylum in the UK is a joke among the staff (the US is deemed a safe country by international convention and so nationals from the US have no claim to asylum!).

3. They have the power to ruin your chances of getting back and forth to the Uk easily, if you are refused entry, and they can refuse a subject entry who fails to answer their questions adequately! If you feel someone has been unreasonable, you can certainly complain to a Chief Officer, but nothing happens as this is law enforcement not customer service. She recently told me of a US national who wanted to join the EU line and became difficult. They were basically with Immigration for 8 hours and had a full search and interview! Easier to just do as you're told.

4. Most UK Immigration staff have a very easy life. She took home £34,000 last year and is off on a 5 month Embassy posting to the Far East this November, all expenses paid, diplomatic status, business class flights....

After hearing her experience - she likes talking! - the problem with people is that an Immigration Officer and Customs halt their passage and inconceniences them. She suggests people just learn to accept that they are answerable to someone.

The Saint

That sort of attitude is - to say the least - very regrettable.

In fact, as a British Citizen, it is the Immigration Officer who is ultimately answerable to me, not the other way round. They are public servants. They are accountable under the law, and if need be can be held to account.

One of the great things about the rule of law is that it prohibits the capricious exercise of arbitrary power. You can't just detain someone simply because they haven't shown a sufficiently subservient attitude.

This confident assertion applies only to non-UK citizens. An IO has almost no power to "ruin my chances of getting back and forth to the UK easily". There are no border controls leaving the UK and the role of the IO on re-entry is limited to ascertaining that I am a British Citizen, which is done by checking and scanning my passport. There are no further "questions" to which I remotely have to provide "adequate" answers in order to be entitled to re-enter the country.

Of course one can complain. The other route open is litigation, in particular judicial review. This would be the obvious route for someone detained 8 hours by a capricious IO on a power trip.

ajax

Glad to see my tax money at work.

I suggest she get her priorities straight.

vla

May I refer you to

May I also refer you to the British Nationality Act 1981, which ceased usage of the term "British Subject" and replaced it with three categories of nationality, namely (a) British Citizenship. (b) British Dependent territories citizenship (modified in 2002 to British Overseas Territories Citizen) and (c) British Overseas citizenship.

BCs are full British nationals. BOTCs and BOCs both may qualify for ILR and indeed full British citizenship after five years residence in the UK, although the initial entry threshold for BOCs is more difficult to achieve in comparison to BOTCs.

On this basis -- yes indeed, don't be nasty to IOs -- but if one is a British Citizen returning to one's home country, that re-entry is guaranteed and any British Citizen threatened with the possibility of refused entry upon returning to their home country by an IO would be in a very good position to stand one's ground against the IO. Should entry actually be denied to a British Citizen, provided of course, that one's identity can be established with certainty, that citizen would be in a very good position to begin a lawsuit against HM Government.

traveller5

The Saint - you seem to have some sort of inferiority complex as most of your posts are about..."me"..."answerable to ME"..."I[ME] am the customer.."
Are you the sort that storms up to check-in, Immigration, Customs etc with an attitude and hunting for trouble? Nice things happen to nice people...

bizgeez

I am referring to non-EU citizens being answerable, but 'The Saint' you can easily be detained under the 2004 Terrorism Act for up to 9 hours and under Customs powers if an Immigration Officer receives you as a "hit" on scanning your passport! As for ligitation, an IO has the power to detain non-EU passengers for up to 24 hours at an airport, so do try legal proceedings after 8 hours...but good luck as your money will be well wasted.

The Saint - I have to agree that you come across as quite a "trouble-hunter".

Inadequate somewhere?

G-BOAC

Do we really - especially very new posters - have to derail an otherwise interesting and eloquent argument with cheap, lazy personal digs at The Saint rather than just debating the issues and questions he raises?

It seems to me he raises some important points about what being a British Citizen does/should entitle you to in terms of entry to your own country. I certainly don't go trying to cause trouble with IOs and I only object to them scanning my passport because it causes such painful bloody queues because they won't have enough agents on/lines dedicated to UK/EU people...but I know I would get very snippy if I was being asked stupid questions and otherwise held up trying to get back in to MY country by civil servants MY taxes fund. I see nothing unreasonable in having basic expectations. vla has also posted an interesting quote and the insider insight bizgeez posted was likewise very interesting. It also seems to me that The Saint knows more than a bit about the Law invovled here too...