Globaliser

[Thought of replying to TrvlGuru but then thought better of it.]

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited 10-22-2002).]

Gaza

For a Guru you seem to be a bit short on knowledge, so let me fill a gap for you.

In Europe (as it is in most of the rest of the world I suspect) it is normally far cheaper to route through another countries hub than it is through your "home" airlines hub. For example:-

From my home Airport (EDI) the cost of a Biz Class ticket with BA or VS to JNB via LHR is:-

Ł2838 (D Class)
Ł3056 (J Class)

I can, however, get consolidator fares with minimal restrictions or penalties for much less. Examples below:-

LH via FRA - Ł1477
LX via ZRH - Ł1477
AF via CDG - Ł1523
IB via MAD - Ł1682
KL via AMS - Ł1795

When travelling on my own money, like Pucci, I will look for the best Business Class deal I can get. I cannot afford to pay Ł3000 for a flight, but for the extra comfort I am prepared to pay the type of fares I have shown above. To get to any longhaul destination requires me to transit through a hub so it makes little difference if I go through LHR, AMS, ZRH or anywhere else.

Please do not keep going on about the "expensive" fare you paid. You have already told us it was a AONEX. I have a similar ticket booked for later this year that was bought ex-JNB. I have 21 segments booked. The revenue averages out at Ł125 per segment.

In you original post I, and most of the other regulars, agreed that you were due compensation and that BA had handled the situation very badly. What caused the disagreement was the (IMHO) stupid sums that some posters were suggesting.

You seem to have developed a persecution complex, however, I think it is of your own doing.

whmere

Yeah, let's get back on topic.

I agree with Pucci posting your handle with FF status is a bit of fun, shows you're a FF - though I would hope anyone is welcome on these boards - but doesn't really mean much. At least I hope not. I also agree with MIKESILV - being a half-and-half myself (US-Brit) I'm hardly surprised status is an obsession!

But seriously...I guess status means different things to different people. I for one have never used the various baggage tags and other status symbols the airline provides. Maybe this matters to some people but I find wandering around with 'I have status' shouting from you is embarrassing - its a silent "do you know who I am" directed at the whole world. I hate the US airlines' habit of loading F passengers first because it has the same effect: it doesn't get the plane loaded any faster or get you from A to B any quicker, but you do get to look down on the poor unfortunates (like me most of the time) as they file past into the back.

However I realized the importance of status to me a long time ago: when I didn't have any. Crappy seat assignments, trying to plug a laptop in in an air terminal, frequent offhand treatment, endless hours spent queuing. I realised that with the airlines (as with any other business) money talks. Building status is a way of telling them you are a good customer, and as a result getting attention when you need it.

When you travel a lot, all the little niggles also become important in a way they really aren't when you only travel rarely, and 'status' fixes a lot of these for you. Perhaps the word 'status' and those who pursue it as an end in itself are more the problem.

My $0.02 on J and F: I can't speak for my fellow posters but my travel is mixed. Any domestic US flight I'll only pay for coach. Anything longer and I'll always pay for J or F (or maybe use my miles). I ruptured a lumbar disk about a year ago and a MAJOR contributing factor was hundreds of hours spent sitting in a space designed for soemone just 2 inches shorter than me. As a matter of fact, the standard pitch in BA longhaul coach is still about an inch shorter than my knee-thigh-butt measurement (yes, I actually measured it once during a fight with a former boss ). If you've ever been thru that sort of pain, you'd pay the difference too. I won't fly l/h in coach for fear of spending another 6 weeks on oxycontin, having an EMG, spinal injections... and yes, the free booze is not a discouragement.

And for what its worth, when I'm a multi-millionnaire I'll kiss my FF status, AA, BA, LHR and everything else goodbye and charter my own Falcon like most other rich-and-famous. In Eric Cartman's immortal words: "screw you guys..."

[This message has been edited by whmere (edited 10-22-2002).]

ScottC

Go Gaza!!!

PUCCI GALORE

It is late, and I am tired but let me say that I have read some very honest and very true things here. I have not come in before as I thought that the diversions were not relevant.

I do however thank you for your kindnesss (Scotty) and I do appreciate being here with you. I so feel I want to mention the posting by BAGold. I thought that it was delightful, and think that someone who can be as open with us is worth all the Gold he earns!

To the gentleman who started this thread, I suspect that you may be very disappointed with the turn that it took, but it looks well on track and I hope that you had some feedback worthy of the original post. However I would say that all the posts said a lot more about the person than perhaps the topic, and I hjave to say that I view some people with even more respect. Thank you for starting it in the first place.

DFW AA - I sadly do not fly DFW any more as it is a LGW route (for now - tomorrow who knows?). I suppose that the nearest that I come is Chioago. Maybe one day...

Gaza

Most of the UK programmes do not offer anything like the perks that the US programmes do, therefore we rely on our "status" to help make our travel experience a little better. I value the status I have with the main airlines I use: KLM (RoyalWing), bmi (Gold) and BA (Silver). Some posters seem to have confused "status" with "class". They are completley different things. The old British "class" system is still alive but it is slowly being killed off. There are many who will mourn the its passing but there will be many more who are glad to see the back of it.

B Watson

I have watched this thread grow and feel compelled to comment.

I am one of the people who fly F, pay for it and are not embarrassed of this fact. I expect better treatment NOT because I am better, but because I am PAYING more. This is why we call it at capitalist system.

Now, for the experience – Frankly, I spend fully 75% of my time on long haul flights sleeping. I am not in this for the experience, I am in this for transportation. Good food, nice wines and good service are incidental and VERY helpful – they will cause me to select the airline I fly, but in the end my attitude is that if you are in Y I am not better than you – just more comfortable than you.

Now to status. As has been said several times here, the status is a perk that acknowledges loyalty. ANY business does this in the normal course, but the airline industry has formalized the process. There are three categories of people in this status game:

1) Those who fly on Y tickets and need all the perks they can get to make the whole thing less than painful

2) Those who fly on premium tickets and want to get first crack at seats during ops problems, etc.

3) Those who are just nuts and think that a bunch of status makes them really cool

Finally – the notion that Brits are status obsessed can go many ways – after all this is the country that has brought us a first class carriage on the 15 minute Heathrow Express

However, if we Americans could get our heads out of our egalitarian obsessed a**, then perhaps we might be able to deal with the real world a bit easier – frankly this is its own version of snobbishness.

PS – I am a new member of the BA forum and do not always agree with the trends here – however I admire BA for not totally diluting the value of their premium product like the US Airlines have done – also, I VERY much appreciate the candor, objectivity and honesty that Pucci brings to this board. On MANY of the other airline forums, the employees go off on a us vs. them tangent – Pucci tells it like it is, and for my money that makes her a giant value to this board.

Now – as an American I must stop wasting time typing this post so I can go off and sue somebody That must be an easier way to make money then flying for business.

FewMiles

Interesting thread. I for one don't like advertising my FFP status in my profile. (My "From:" line serves much more amusing purposes.) I think it's kind of like bragging or flaunting of status, but that's just IMHO, so I hope no one takes that the wrong way.

If you'll excuse me now, I'll go back to mourning over the pathetic value of my country's so-called dollar.

FewMiles..

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willyroo

From a recent FT, thank you for your candour. As most others have noted, status is critical for those of us who fly mostly Y, with enough J to keep it. If you openly display bagtags and shiny cards shouting who you are, then that is all you are. However, I am anonymous on these boards, and can happily show my status to all, for the many good reasons outlined by Dave (thadocta).

Isn't "shouting" your status, anonymously, almost a paradox?

bagold

Thank you Pucci for your kind words.

Swanhunter

Being obsessed with status is fine - I am. I try hard to keep my BA gold and SQ PPS. I am get to fly J on business, so there are no huge benefits. When I go on holiday, I can't afford J, and neither can 'er indoors. She also doesn't get to travel on business, so it's great for her to get lounge access, have some champers, use miles to fly concorde. I think of it as some compensation for me b@ggering off for 2 weeks every month. But, if the obsession becomes something you hang your self image on, something you shout and brag about that's not so good.

I worked in the retail industry in the UK for several years, and the number of times I heard 'don't you know I'm a chargecard holder/shareholder/friend of the chairman' is probably in the millions. That approach does not work, and it doesn't say much about you as a person IMHO - Scott's gold card shredder is a fine idea for bringing a little reality back.

Enjoy the benefits, but they are not a God given right, and try not to construct your entire life around it.

And as you will see, I am quite happy to mention my status in the from column, but hopefully it does show I don't take it too seriously!

Rant over

Kovich

Gaza, I disagree with you when you say status and class are different things. I believe status is the modern day equivalent of class. Previously class meant one of three things: some people looked up to you in the "doff the cap to me lord and master" concept: those in power respected your opinion and it also meant access to amenities people without class did not have.

I see having "status" with a commercial organisation the modern day equivalent. A flyer brandishing a gold card at check in is saying to the passengers behind him/her: "look up to me I am Gold", is saying to the airline staff person, "you had better look after me because powerful people within your organisation think I am important" and is asking for travel amenities which are not given out to the normal people (ie let me into the lounge).

It's more democratic but still primarily tied to what the old class was tied to which was access to financial resources.

m2uk

"One way or another, all the examples, (and believe me I could give you a long list of very wealthy and royal people) who book, pay, and fly WT. Mind you I am equally sure, not one of them or your examples would I am sure decline a "UWord" if offered."

... and then rely on special services/liaison to u/g them for 'good PR'. AIUI CPB is one prime example of that ... can't have the future wife of Charlie with the oiks.

db7

As someone who doesn't fly F/R most of the time and often not J/C either for the simple reason that these service don't exist on the flights Status is important.

Normal trips to Europe, even day trips, involve at least two flights in each direct. The first of the day is normally an all economy flight. Status takes the hassle out of this. While travelling C in Europe the ability to use F lounges is a plus - unfortuantely there are few of these about.

On transatlantic flights the only real benefit is being able to get row 3 on Concorde - though often you find a ow em next to you doing it for the first time and wanting to tell you there life history.

landspeed

I am one of the people who likes to fly F knowing that I'm sitting in the same cabin as the above type of passenger knowing that I paid $48.50 in taxes for my ticket and am not embarrassed of this fact.

Seriously, with the relative rarity industry-wide of paying F passengers, the majors, IMHO, need both the people who always pay for F directly to obtain "first class" treatment for and those of us who pay a range of fares but are repeat customers of a given airline because of loyalty.

On another note- there are people who are led to believe that airline "status" = social status, and the airlines encourage this (Admirals Club, Red Carpet Clubs, First Class, Upper Class, Executive Platinum, Executive Club Gold, etc.).

For those people I have the following reminder- American Express and the National Geographic Society are both membership organizations, too. Heck, even the local Pharmacy has a "Dollar Rewards Club"!