YVR Cockroach

I just made a cursory check on load factors for JFK-LHR yesterday. With the caveat that BA primarily uses 744s on this route and AA uses 772s, I noticed that the BA flights were leaving with many seats in the R category (not 1 or 2 but 7+) as well as many FC and BC (full and discounted inventory) ones. The AA flights were much tighter with generally just a handful of seats in the top 3 EC inventory classes and often with FC and BC sold out (heavy discounting?) Just wondering if trans-Atlantic load factors for BA are doing poorly?

ScottC

J and F being so full on AA isn't a surprise, much easier to upgrade there, as far as the loads, the flights I've seen were as good as full, what are you using to check these loads? Keep in mind that any generic system like a Galileo interface will most likely be incorrect as they also show capacity based on overbooking.

BA's sales figures look good, and I suspect they'd rather have a half full cabin with paying passengers than a cabin with only a handful of paying pax and the rest on VIP's.

CharlesMD

Winter housecleaning!

PUCCI GALORE

I am sorry to disillusion you, but whatever your observations may be in the First Class cabin, they are not factual. As far as the maifest goes, we do not have that great a number of employees in First Class. Indeed on some routes it it practically impossible to get any sub load space at all. Australian routes come immediately to mind.

As far as awards and so on go, let me say this once and for all. These people have "paid" in one form or another or they would not have the seat. They may not have parted with cash (taxes apart), but they have paid through their travels, credit cards, shopping at Tescos, test driving cars, sleeping in the sort of hotels that I have to sleep in on trips, and so on.

There is no question in my mind, but AA make life very much easier to u*****e, and I as a customer appreciate that. It would appear that if ever you pay the full Business fare in the UK (I cannot speak for elsewhere) you are probably likely to sit in the First Class cabin. indeed there has been a big advertising campaign over in the UK promoting exactly that (with 15% knocked off the fare for good measure). Now that to me spells someone that has more supply than demand. Moreover, I notice that the First Class product on American Airlines has been seriously downgraded in the past couple of years and that the seat apart there is little difference between what is offered in Business and First. The menus are identical but I believe that they offer the First Class product on a plate rather than one of those oven proof dishes. Please do not misunderstand me, I have had some excellent flights on American (I could tell you about United - or worse Northwest, but one should never speak ill of the afflicted)

I would also add that my friends who fly for American assure me that the First Class positions are those that the "mid senior" bids (Business is the hardest work they tell me).

I think that you have been lucky with your American flights as those to and from LAX always seem to be packed!

Swiss Tony

It would seem that AA have the more aggressive discounts up front.... As PUCCI pointed out, there's a 15% discount & free upgrade going in the UK right now (flyer arrived in the post yesterday).

Also, you can get what is practically a walk-up C Class fare on AA for £1600 (LHR-JFK r/t), whereas BA have an advance purchase restriction of several weeks on these fares, so you're probably going to attract more of the top-end leisure travellers this way.

Then there's the corproate bulk discounts. Not too sure of this landscape, but I once worked for a big Swiss bank in London & they prioritised travel by AA across the pond...

So, I wouldn't be too surprised at the fact AA looks busier than BA....

vSFU

Are there any AA flights out of the UK but not LHR that qualify for BA points & miles?

ExtrAAordinaire

ORD-MAN and BOS-MAN, as well as ORD-GLA (I believe).

PhilH

No, I don't think that's right. From BA.com

** BA Miles and Tier Points cannot be earned or redeemed on American Airlines transatlantic flights between UK/Europe and the Americas.

So its even wider than LHR-US or even UK-US, but encompasses any Europe-US flight on AA. Basically any AA plane that crosses the Atlantic is ineligible for BA miles earning.

PhilH

Swiss Tony

Suspect the confusion may be arising from the fact BA & AA can codeshare only on flights that aren't LHR-US???

Also bear in mind that the MAN-BOS flight is Economy only, and I believe it's LRTC at that!

millionmiler

I think that the confusion comes from the fact that AA recently starting awarding miles on BA transatlantic flights from cities other than London or locations in North America other than the US (e.g., Canada).

I didn't realize the BA had not done the same.

CharlesMD

Winter housecleaning!

FF_Bello

Where do you get those fares? The cheapest I could find LHR-JFK on aa.com was GBP2300. And how do you claim the upgrades for that fare?

Swiss Tony

I found the £1600 fare on expedia just by putting in tomorrow for a departure, coming back next week (I was going to illustrate it with a £1800 fare in October that i'd seen, bu that looked more impressive).

Not sure how the upgrade works, but it's only on the full-fare C ticket (J2AA or something). I believe the full details are on www.americanairlines.co.uk

Good luck!

Bretteee

how do u find the load factors?

mAAine_flyer

Yes, it is. And all-coach service too, though the F seats up front will be reservable by elites.