BA, OneWorld and RTW
Mar 16, 1999, 1:49 am
#1
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York - DL Gold, AA Gold, AC Prestige, VS Silver
Posts: 811
BA, OneWorld and RTW
I don't know much about the Executive Club program so I apologize in advance for the "newbie" question.
There has been much discussion on this board about extra-long (70K+) trips on Oneworld Round-the-world tickets in Business and First class.
My question: If the RTW was bought in Business or First and the points credited to BA Exec Club, would all the flights qualify for tier points ?
Assuming that the answer is yes, if one started from scratch in the beginning of a year on a RTW and progressed through the various tier ranks - what would you reckon that a 70K trip would net in terms of cumulative miles (including all bonuses) ?
Thank you,
-aneet
There has been much discussion on this board about extra-long (70K+) trips on Oneworld Round-the-world tickets in Business and First class.
My question: If the RTW was bought in Business or First and the points credited to BA Exec Club, would all the flights qualify for tier points ?
Assuming that the answer is yes, if one started from scratch in the beginning of a year on a RTW and progressed through the various tier ranks - what would you reckon that a 70K trip would net in terms of cumulative miles (including all bonuses) ?
Thank you,
-aneet
Mar 16, 1999, 3:42 am
#2
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
MM: I am assuming you are/would be a USA member of the Executive Club.
The first thing for you to consider is that tier level makes no difference to mileage earning with BA.
For USA members the mileage earning formula is:
Economy: Actual Miles Flown
Club: Actual Miles Flown + 25% bonus
First: Actual Miles Flown + 50% bonus
Concorde: Actual Miles Flown + 50% bonus
Miles are only earnt on the following fare types:
Economy: S,B,K,M.
Club: C,D,J.
First: F,A.
Concorde: R,A,N,I,U.
Tier points (status points) are much more difficult to anticiapte. Points are issued as follows:
60 - US to UK
80 - US (West Coast) to UK
30 - UK to Europe (some exceptions)
50 - UK to Middle East, India, Pakistan.
60 - UK to Africa
80 - UK to Far East/Japan
100 - UK to Australia/NZ
15 - NON UK < 2000 miles
50 - NON UK > 2000 miles
There are a few addions/exceptions to this list, but you should get the general idea.
Class bonuses for Tier Points are Club X2, First X3, Concorde 250 points.
Tier qualification is:
700 points for Silver.
1,700 points for Gold.
I am affraid someone else will have to answer to specific question about wether RTW fares qualify for miles/points.
------------------
Nick
The first thing for you to consider is that tier level makes no difference to mileage earning with BA.
For USA members the mileage earning formula is:
Economy: Actual Miles Flown
Club: Actual Miles Flown + 25% bonus
First: Actual Miles Flown + 50% bonus
Concorde: Actual Miles Flown + 50% bonus
Miles are only earnt on the following fare types:
Economy: S,B,K,M.
Club: C,D,J.
First: F,A.
Concorde: R,A,N,I,U.
Tier points (status points) are much more difficult to anticiapte. Points are issued as follows:
60 - US to UK
80 - US (West Coast) to UK
30 - UK to Europe (some exceptions)
50 - UK to Middle East, India, Pakistan.
60 - UK to Africa
80 - UK to Far East/Japan
100 - UK to Australia/NZ
15 - NON UK < 2000 miles
50 - NON UK > 2000 miles
There are a few addions/exceptions to this list, but you should get the general idea.
Class bonuses for Tier Points are Club X2, First X3, Concorde 250 points.
Tier qualification is:
700 points for Silver.
1,700 points for Gold.
I am affraid someone else will have to answer to specific question about wether RTW fares qualify for miles/points.
------------------
Nick
Mar 16, 1999, 5:32 am
#3
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,023
The booking codes given by Merry indicate that the oneWorld product will give status points (BA would use M, D & A for Economy, Club and First respectively).
Based on the itinerary that was posted in the buzz and using the tier table that Merry has given, my quick calculation is:
1090 Tier Points for Economy
2180 Tier Points for Club
3270 Tier Points for First
This assumes that Club or First is offered on all segments (which is unlikely). Nevertheless, if you decided to follow the routing using the Club or First RTW fare you should be assured of Gold qualification.
As a comparison, if you choose AA you will qualify for Gold after 25,000 miles, then Platinum after 50,000 miles regardless of fare chosen. To qualify for Executive Platinum you need 100,000 points which are calculated based on miles and class of ticket. The oneWorld product would give a multiplier of 0.50 for coach, 1.25 for business and 1.50 for first. So, if the itinerary was 70,000 miles you would get 35,000 points for coach, 87,500 for business and 105,000 for first. Again, this assumes that you can get business or first on every segment. It is highly likely you would miss out on qualifying for Executive Platinum.
As another comparison, consider what miles you would get if you were with AA. If you started from zip (i.e. ordinary AAdvantage member) then you would get approximately 96,250 miles (taking into account moving through the two elite levels). Add 17,500 for business and 35,000 for first. You would get significantly more if you start out as either Gold, Platinum/Executive Platinum (25% and 100% bonuses respectively). I would compare the award charts for both to see which would be a better deal.
Hmmm, maybe I should do one of these. Could be a quick way to qualify for BA Gold, but would I want to do that nightmare routing???
Based on the itinerary that was posted in the buzz and using the tier table that Merry has given, my quick calculation is:
1090 Tier Points for Economy
2180 Tier Points for Club
3270 Tier Points for First
This assumes that Club or First is offered on all segments (which is unlikely). Nevertheless, if you decided to follow the routing using the Club or First RTW fare you should be assured of Gold qualification.
As a comparison, if you choose AA you will qualify for Gold after 25,000 miles, then Platinum after 50,000 miles regardless of fare chosen. To qualify for Executive Platinum you need 100,000 points which are calculated based on miles and class of ticket. The oneWorld product would give a multiplier of 0.50 for coach, 1.25 for business and 1.50 for first. So, if the itinerary was 70,000 miles you would get 35,000 points for coach, 87,500 for business and 105,000 for first. Again, this assumes that you can get business or first on every segment. It is highly likely you would miss out on qualifying for Executive Platinum.
As another comparison, consider what miles you would get if you were with AA. If you started from zip (i.e. ordinary AAdvantage member) then you would get approximately 96,250 miles (taking into account moving through the two elite levels). Add 17,500 for business and 35,000 for first. You would get significantly more if you start out as either Gold, Platinum/Executive Platinum (25% and 100% bonuses respectively). I would compare the award charts for both to see which would be a better deal.
Hmmm, maybe I should do one of these. Could be a quick way to qualify for BA Gold, but would I want to do that nightmare routing???
Mar 16, 1999, 6:40 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
I have just reveived a fax from BA stating that OneWorld have in the last 30 mins re-issued the terms of their "Explorer" product.
In summary: The prices have been reduced slightly ie. Club price is now £3199.
- Unlimited Mileage.
- 3/4/5/6 continents.
- 3 free stopovers in each continent (additional sectors £60 per sector).
- Upgrades to Concorde available from Club and First fares.
HOWEVER, the position with tier points in unclear.
As an example:
The fax says class of travel for Economy would be 'M', but 'M' class only attracts tier points for UK Domestic and Shuttle services, EuroTraveller and WorldTraveller fares need to be 'S' class to attract tier points.
The same situation seems to apply for Business and First Class, although the codes obviously change.
------------------
Nick
In summary: The prices have been reduced slightly ie. Club price is now £3199.
- Unlimited Mileage.
- 3/4/5/6 continents.
- 3 free stopovers in each continent (additional sectors £60 per sector).
- Upgrades to Concorde available from Club and First fares.
HOWEVER, the position with tier points in unclear.
As an example:
The fax says class of travel for Economy would be 'M', but 'M' class only attracts tier points for UK Domestic and Shuttle services, EuroTraveller and WorldTraveller fares need to be 'S' class to attract tier points.
The same situation seems to apply for Business and First Class, although the codes obviously change.
------------------
Nick
Mar 16, 1999, 8:29 am
#6
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 3,065
Sorry my mistake - when I looked at the MM's address and the flight details on the posting on Buzz, I noticed the Canada element and chenged to details to the Global Scheme - I forgot to edit the "USA" element.
My mistake.
------------------
Nick
My mistake.
------------------
Nick
Mar 16, 1999, 9:05 am
#7
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Pasadena, CA. USA
Posts: 1,438
MGM: Your calculation of AA mileage will be significantly altered if the traveller, who starts out as an ordinary AAdvantage member, takes the Platinum challenge (fly 16K in 90 days). In that scenario, the traveller would get a lot more miles. However, your statement is still correct that the traveller would likely qualifying for Exec Platinum.
Mar 16, 1999, 9:24 am
#8
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA**US Airways Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,338
I have also checked CP's website--they indicate that only CP, CP*, AA, AA*, and QF count for status, so that's probably a bad option. If that has changed and all 1W members now count, then a 70k itinerary will get you 87,500 in business--that's already enough for XPlat (their Emerald level--only requires 85k). (With threshold bonuses, if you do it May or earlier, you'd have 124,500 accumulated.)
Semi-relevant newsflash--Iberia has just thrown in with 1W.
[This message has been edited by silverpie (edited 03-16-99).]
Semi-relevant newsflash--Iberia has just thrown in with 1W.
[This message has been edited by silverpie (edited 03-16-99).]
Mar 16, 1999, 12:59 pm
#9
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
silverpie:
The AA, QF, CP arrangement for Canadian (CP) was *prior* to oneworld. (P.S. I like your 1w abreviation.) Like the other carriers, all 1w flight now qualify. As well, there seem to be fewer restrictions about which flights "qualify."
For total miles/points, if you went the CP route, you would most likely get 5,000 point bonuses at 20,000, 35,000, and 85,000, plus 50% bonus miles from 35,000 to 85,000, and 100% bonus after 85,000. And I agree, you would probably have to work hard to *NOT* get Executive Platinum on CP (1w-emerald) by taking this trip.
For what it's worth, over the last month I (CP-emerald) have taken flights on both BA and AA, as well as CP, and they really do treat 1w-emerald members incredibly well. (In fact, AA seems to offer more to CP-emerald than they do to AA-emerald -- better access to lounges for one thing. And I ended up with a bottle of Champagne to take home on the BA trip, which effectively resulted from my emerald status.)
Ken
The AA, QF, CP arrangement for Canadian (CP) was *prior* to oneworld. (P.S. I like your 1w abreviation.) Like the other carriers, all 1w flight now qualify. As well, there seem to be fewer restrictions about which flights "qualify."
For total miles/points, if you went the CP route, you would most likely get 5,000 point bonuses at 20,000, 35,000, and 85,000, plus 50% bonus miles from 35,000 to 85,000, and 100% bonus after 85,000. And I agree, you would probably have to work hard to *NOT* get Executive Platinum on CP (1w-emerald) by taking this trip.
For what it's worth, over the last month I (CP-emerald) have taken flights on both BA and AA, as well as CP, and they really do treat 1w-emerald members incredibly well. (In fact, AA seems to offer more to CP-emerald than they do to AA-emerald -- better access to lounges for one thing. And I ended up with a bottle of Champagne to take home on the BA trip, which effectively resulted from my emerald status.)
Ken
Mar 16, 1999, 2:35 pm
#10
Original Member
Original Poster
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York - DL Gold, AA Gold, AC Prestige, VS Silver
Posts: 811
To clarify, I have a US Executive Club account as it seemed to be much better than the Global one for Canada. Since currently I can be a considered a bonafide resident of both Canada and the USA - I think the US membership would enable me to pick up some extra points (the 25% and 100%).
Thanks for the info. I'll plug through an approximate routing and estimate the tier points and mileage earning (including bonuses) during the next few days. I'll be sure to post the results here.
[This message has been edited by megamiles (edited 03-16-99).]
Thanks for the info. I'll plug through an approximate routing and estimate the tier points and mileage earning (including bonuses) during the next few days. I'll be sure to post the results here.
[This message has been edited by megamiles (edited 03-16-99).]
Mar 17, 1999, 12:18 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,023
I checked with the BA/QF office here in Singapore and they said that Club or First oneWorld Explorer fares do give tier qualification points. Economy does not. So it seems there is a wrinkle given that the economy fare will contribute to AA and CP status. CX I don't know about, but as a general rule they only give miles/points on the most expensive economy fares (can't remember the codes but I think they are equivalent to AA's Y and B).
Merry often reminds us that the BA ff program is really not designed along the same lines as the US programs - it is for the frequent executive traveller who is likely to be paying full fare anyway. I guess that is why it is called Executive Club.
As an aside, when I was talking to the BA agent she asked why I wanted to know about the tier points. I told her that I'm currently an AA Executive Platinum member and was thinking about transferring to BA. Her response was: "Why bother? We're all merged now anyway. If you really insist I can send you an application form." Interesting to see the perspective of someone on the other side of the fence.
Merry often reminds us that the BA ff program is really not designed along the same lines as the US programs - it is for the frequent executive traveller who is likely to be paying full fare anyway. I guess that is why it is called Executive Club.
As an aside, when I was talking to the BA agent she asked why I wanted to know about the tier points. I told her that I'm currently an AA Executive Platinum member and was thinking about transferring to BA. Her response was: "Why bother? We're all merged now anyway. If you really insist I can send you an application form." Interesting to see the perspective of someone on the other side of the fence.
Mar 21, 1999, 8:46 am
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Half the World & More and then some.
Programs: BA, SQ, AA, QF, CX, VS
Posts: 1,202
With the exception of CP, all other oneworld airline representatives in Singapore are ill-informed about oneworld products, mileage accumulation, lounge access information, and just plain friendliness.
Are there any CPlus Exec Plat members in Singapore? CP is giving a party in April in honour of their high tier members...
Mar 21, 1999, 1:12 pm
#13
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,222
Celestar340:
Don't lose hope. Your experience with non-CP oneworld (1w) members was similar to mine from last November until mid February. AA, and to a lesser degree, BA, seemed to be uninformed and fairly disinterested. Now however, BA and particularly AA seem to be "with it" and really pushing 1w.
CP on the other had was very quick out of the starting blocks. I think this has to do with being the smallest of the lot, and with their financial problems. It seemed to be a source of real pride to be officially affilated with BA, CX, and QF. The 1w announcement was made Sep 21, and in the first week of November, CP was already making changes to implement 1w, even though it was still 3 months away.
Perhaps it will just take the Singapore offices of the 1w members longer to get into the loop.
Regards,
Ken Hamer
[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 03-22-99).]
Don't lose hope. Your experience with non-CP oneworld (1w) members was similar to mine from last November until mid February. AA, and to a lesser degree, BA, seemed to be uninformed and fairly disinterested. Now however, BA and particularly AA seem to be "with it" and really pushing 1w.
CP on the other had was very quick out of the starting blocks. I think this has to do with being the smallest of the lot, and with their financial problems. It seemed to be a source of real pride to be officially affilated with BA, CX, and QF. The 1w announcement was made Sep 21, and in the first week of November, CP was already making changes to implement 1w, even though it was still 3 months away.
Perhaps it will just take the Singapore offices of the 1w members longer to get into the loop.
Regards,
Ken Hamer
[This message has been edited by KenHamer (edited 03-22-99).]
Mar 21, 1999, 8:00 pm
#14
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 1,023
I don't think the Singapore office (BA/QF) is that ill-informed. Sure, they don't always have the answer at their fingertips but they try to find out and they call YOU back. If I have any doubt about the information they give me I get them to fax a copy of the policy/ticket rules to me. Now AA in Singapore is a different issue. Their office is really just a sales agency acting on AA's behalf - I never bother contacting them, it's quicker to call the US direct to find out what you want.
Mar 22, 1999, 7:59 am
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Half the World & More and then some.
Programs: BA, SQ, AA, QF, CX, VS
Posts: 1,202
Hey mgm...
Maybe we'll get to meet if you're in town for the OneWorld party on the 7th (I think) for Sapphire and Emerald members. Apparently it might be held at CHIJMES.
Each oneWorld partner will contact their top tier members to attend.
Maybe we'll get to meet if you're in town for the OneWorld party on the 7th (I think) for Sapphire and Emerald members. Apparently it might be held at CHIJMES.
Each oneWorld partner will contact their top tier members to attend.