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Cabin crew not easily visible during safety demo

Cabin crew not easily visible during safety demo

Old Apr 3, 2024, 10:50 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by Greenpen
Does anyone really care about safety demonstrations? I donít and generally ignore them and my perception is that most other people do too. Some are so irritating I put my finger on my ears and hum, not too loudly to disturb those around me I hope.

Has any real research been done showing the demonstration to be effective? Probably very difficult to do but I suspect not. Doing it is another matter; what fun if we all had to practice opening doors and sliding down before each flight, but only the crew will presumably have done that in their training.
Although studies have been done (including by regulators), the proof is in the pudding with how passengers respond during emergencies.

During the JAL A350 incident, there was full compliance with leaving baggage behind during the evacuation - something that was heavily emphasised during the demonstration. That in itself saved lives with how quickly the aircraft went up in flames. It also helps that within Japanese culture, itís standard to pay attention, listen and comply with instructions.

Whereas conversely, during the Southwest decompression in 2018, those who ignored the safety demonstration couldnít even put their oxygen mask on correctly - with many having it on their mouth only. This incident followed the standard ďrest of the worldĒ culture. Too busy on their phones, or many with a viewpoint similar to yours above. And those passengers became the butt of the joke online, when they were too busy taking selfies with a mask incorrectly fitted and barely hanging off their face.

The point is, the safety demonstration is only effective if people pay attention- and thereís many other incidents that prove that point. Itís not effective however, when people blatantly ignore the information with a ďit wonít happen to meĒ attitude.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 11:10 pm
  #62  
 
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Even if you could recite the briefing word for word, being reminded of the facts puts your mind into a state where, should something happen, you can react more automatically and therefore more effectively. And this doesn't just help you, it helps others.
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 12:37 am
  #63  
 
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Iím sure Iíve been on a flight where the demo has been done twice, with the crew moving to a different part of the aircraft. I want to say it was a 4 class Club Suites 77W where the crew stood at 1A in first was obstructed by cabin divider so did a whole separate briefing for the small CW cabin forward of D2L.

Personally, Iíd write a letter / send an email so that this is in a log somewhere. If there is an incident it would also potentially be disclosable and ultimately safety is everyoneís responsibility and h&s processes / risk assessments arenít infallible. If you donít report it, nothing can be done, if you do report it, the company can choose how to respond, especially if they get lots of reports. Maybe a SCCM could ask the tallest crew member to go to that demo position!
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 1:25 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by Misco60
You are all wrongly conflating two very different things: the message, and the means of delivery.

Safety information is critically important, and I am quite sure that no-one would disagree with that. But BA's safety briefing is verbose (it could do with being looked at by the Plain English Campaign), and frequently delivered in a rapid, barely comprehensible monotone while the member of cabin crew giving the demonstration giggles and shares a private joke with her colleague at the other end of the cabin.

The thing is, I know how to fasten and unfasten my seatbelt, and that I should keep it fastened while seated; that my seat back must be upright and tray table stored; that I mustn't smoke in the lavs; how to put on a life jacket, and that it has a whistle and a tiny light; the brace position; that, in the event of an evacuation I must take off my high heels and leave everything behind. This information never changes, and is just noise, obscuring the important message, which is: know where your nearest exit is.

So, upon boarding, I check where the exits are, and how I would reach them, and where my lifejacket is. I am then confident that I am fully prepared to evacuate in the event of an emergency. Better-prepared, in fact, than a passenger who stares glassy-eyed at the safety demo and takes nothing in.

Now, please don't get me started on having my quiet nap interrupted by a captain who is desperate to tell us which runway we're going to be using and how high we'll be flying...
I think this is a fair point. They could shorten/do away with the seatbelt demonstration and focus more attention on the exits and the fact that people should leave everything behind. I know it's a tricky balancing act in the sense that the airlines don't want to focus too much attention on how things may go wrong, but the evacuation process does seem to me to be of paramount importance. The light and the whistle on the lifejacket do seem like secondary points.
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 2:11 am
  #65  
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Originally Posted by IAMORGAN
I’m sure I’ve been on a flight where the demo has been done twice, with the crew moving to a different part of the aircraft. I want to say it was a 4 class Club Suites 77W where the crew stood at 1A in first was obstructed by cabin divider so did a whole separate briefing for the small CW cabin forward of D2L.
Yes, that does happen, and a number of circumstances can create that. During the pandemic, crew numbers (and passenger numbers) were configured differently, and the IFE version couldn't be used, so it was quite common to get the safety briefing twice. Now that the IFE has been updated this shouldn't happen so often but if the configuration of aircraft, crew, passengers, IFE availability is out of kilter then two sets of demonstrations will happen.

Now in terms of the OP (for fear of keeping this On Topic!), then that would have been an option but the LGW CW cabin is very small, and only 3 seats have poor sight lines, so I would say it would be better for the OP's companion to place themselves so that they can see the demonstratoin, and / or have a quick chat with the cabin crew about anything they missed.
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 3:21 am
  #66  
 
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I was too much concerned during my working life with things such as safety (not specifically airlines mind you), that I understood the importance of safety briefings. That said, and as a couple of other posters have pointed out, there is a difference between the message and how it's delivered. I'm convinced that there's more chance of the message being taken in if it were half as long (or even less). Furthermore the briefing would probably benefit from serious cuts, with everything that isn't related to emergencies being removed. Too much information will simply mean that nothing is assimilated (just listen to the verbal diarrhoea from politicians as an example!)
I still remember when the briefing was done by video and I was supposed to be impressed with the message being delivered by personalities I'd never heard of. I found it neither funny, nor informative. I don't live in the UK and it largely meant nothing to me. Just watch the Qantas briefings which were along the same lines and were even more meaningless.
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 5:40 am
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by VictorSierra
Unsure if this an old wivesí tale, but isnít this there to remind you that youíre using a belt thatís unfastened in a different position to your day-to-day belts, eg, car seatbelts?
Now that car-style buckles are present on some aircraft I make a point of reminding myself which one I am secured by before each flight. I have a mental checklist which I run through while generally ignoring safety videos which try too hard to be entertaining and just irritate me. I always prefer a manual safety demonstration as there is no nonsense introduced.

My list is:
Check distance to nearest exit forward and aft of seat. Consider likely numbers of passengers using each, as the closest one may not be the fastest to get to, and the fact that most passengers will go forward even when the closest exit is behind them.
If at overwing exit, reminder of operation method.
Locate lifejacket.
Look at seatbelt release mechanism.
Look at oxygen mask panel location.
Decide which brace position is relevant to current seat.

Wear shoes for takeoff and landing! I don't always keep a passport in my pocket, I figure that if I've just escaped a burning aircraft in some unfriendly and bureaucratic territory then sleeping on the airport floor armed only with a lesser form of ID that lives with my phone will do until I can procure an emergency travel document.

Finally I hope everyone would agree that talking during the safety demo is the height of rudeness. Nobody can force you to listen, but don't distract those who are trying to take in information.
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 6:31 pm
  #68  
 
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Originally Posted by nk15
The safety video I would like to see is a demonstration and tips of how to climb over six rows of seats in a smoke-filled cabin and get to the door in 60 seconds, while other pax getting their luggage from the bins... Could some airline please produce that...
Trivia point for the day: during the certification test for the 747, one of the flight attendants did exactly that. The standard is that the plane has to be completely evacuated in 90 seconds with only half the exits working, and during the test the slide failed on one of the "working" doors (1L, if I remember correctly). The FA just moved forward over the seats -- in those days, at least, they did fold forward -- to assist with rerouting the "passengers" to other exits. Quite interesting to see, if you ever have the opportunity (it was filmed).
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 10:13 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by HCCCrew
Although studies have been done (including by regulators), the proof is in the pudding with how passengers respond during emergencies.

During the JAL A350 incident, there was full compliance with leaving baggage behind during the evacuation - something that was heavily emphasised during the demonstration. That in itself saved lives with how quickly the aircraft went up in flames. It also helps that within Japanese culture, it’s standard to pay attention, listen and comply with instructions.

Whereas conversely, during the Southwest decompression in 2018, those who ignored the safety demonstration couldn’t even put their oxygen mask on correctly - with many having it on their mouth only. This incident followed the standard “rest of the world” culture. Too busy on their phones, or many with a viewpoint similar to yours above. And those passengers became the butt of the joke online, when they were too busy taking selfies with a mask incorrectly fitted and barely hanging off their face.

The point is, the safety demonstration is only effective if people pay attention- and there’s many other incidents that prove that point. It’s not effective however, when people blatantly ignore the information with a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.
AF358 also somehow managed to evacuate everyone under 90 seconds, it was shshow but they did it...That's encouraging...

Last edited by aks120; Apr 4, 2024 at 11:10 pm Reason: Removed video link as it did not work
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Old Apr 4, 2024, 11:00 pm
  #70  
 
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I always listen to the safety talk/demo, until they start talking about taking high heeled shoes off and calling for help if the phone gets stuck between seats.

I donít understand why pointing to the floor to tell us where the floor level lighting is, is an important thing the crew have to do. But someone has decided itís important for them to do, so I watch.

Also, one day the emergency exits wonít be two hand wobbles behind me and two hand wobbles in front. I watch every time waiting for that mythical moment on the flights I take.

On topic, if sitting behind the curtain at the window seat on short haul, itís often not possible to see the demo.

All Iím really interested in is how to tie up the life jacket as on some airlines/flights itís a clip thing and sometimes you have to tie them.
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Old Apr 7, 2024, 8:42 am
  #71  
 
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Starboard side - rotate to the left, pull in, push out

Port side - rotate to the right, pull in, push out

Pax - not crew

Den
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Old Apr 7, 2024, 10:05 am
  #72  
 
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Originally Posted by adrianlondon
and calling for help if the phone gets stuck between seats.
This part generally causes more issues than any others on flights so everyone would do well to listen. I recently had a flight to the states where another passenger in J lost his phone in the seat and tried to move it, crushing the phone and causing a strong smell of electrical burning. Fortunately the crew reacted quickly and managed to get the crushed phone in water before it became a serious problem.
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Old Apr 7, 2024, 12:17 pm
  #73  
 
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I thought I’d read somewhere on these forums that BA were getting pre-recorded safety demo announcements? I think it would be a good move, especially now that they’ve all but done away with the video screens on the short haul fleet. The recorded announcements are so much more consistent, easier to understand and well paced, especially if English isn’t your first language. There’s also an opportunity to add the origin/destination language briefing too.
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Old Apr 7, 2024, 1:07 pm
  #74  
 
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I am currently in Argentina. Aerolineas Argentina make nil announcements other than the safety briefing and seat upright for landing. This includes no mention of a 2 hour delay !

To me this works. There is no flannel about the cruising height, service on board , or anything else the crew like to prattle on about. The only stuff they mention is safety so listen.

I have been in 2 building fires. I always want to know how to get out. I have a friend who is ex Australian sas. It does not matter where we go - restaurant etc he wants to know the way out.

I am a reasonably high time private pilot. If it all goes wrong you are trained in a series of vital actions from memory that stand some fair odds of saving your neck.

As a passenger you don't need to know much and Joanna Lumly with a load of people who think they are funny is not the way to communicate it.

But anyone who thinks they don't need to know where the exit is, how the lights change on the floor when they get to that exit and to buckle up and brace and not to take personal belongings with them and for this instructions to be reinforced is living in a strange world. The odd of needing it. Low. The need should it arise to know ? Off the scale.

I will admit to being a bit circumspect as to the value of life jackets and the odds of the aircraft not breaking up and actually getting out but given Sully managed it I am likely wrong !
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Old May 17, 2024, 6:28 am
  #75  
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New safety video premiering next week internally.
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