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Cabin crew not easily visible during safety demo

Cabin crew not easily visible during safety demo

Old Apr 3, 2024, 12:53 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Can I help you
Really, I think the majority of posts are related to safety onboard?
It's just a pity that this wasn't the topic of the thread!
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 12:59 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by golfmad
It's just a pity that this wasn't the topic of the thread!
I have seen many that have gone a lot more off topic.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 1:01 pm
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by Greenpen
Does anyone really care about safety demonstrations? I don’t and generally ignore them and my perception is that most other people do too. Some are so irritating I put my finger on my ears and hum, not too loudly to disturb those around me I hope.

Has any real research been done showing the demonstration to be effective? Probably very difficult to do but I suspect not. Doing it is another matter; what fun if we all had to practice opening doors and sliding down before each flight, but only the crew will presumably have done that in their training.
I have read all this with much interest and a sense of dj vu as there were similar threads here - and sentiments expressed - in September 2011 and January 2014 .

It is good to see that most on here take the different attitude to Greenpen, but for those that don’t I repeat a little polemic I posted some 13 years ago that, on re-reading, now seems pretty pompous, but I reckon it is still apt and timely. The previous threads’ contexts were slightly different, but the key message is just the same, so I copy it here without apology:
September 2011
“The OP’s complacency about knowing the safety procedures inside out (and ignoring the briefings) clearly shows that he has never faced a real life-threatening emergency, and nor does he expect to do so. Ask anybody who has actually experienced a smoke filled cabin at night if they could at that point recite the emergency procedures word for word and they will tell you that their sheer terror threatens to wipe their mind clean.
It is for this reason that all aircrew religiously follow the same aircraft checks time and time again however many times they fly an aircraft; it is why a safety officer on a live firing range in the military always – always – recites the rules to those using it however many times they have been there before; it is why helicopter crews are subjected to being dunked 15 feet underwater, upside down in the dark, strapped into a mock-up fuselage with 10 other people : so that their escape drills and knowledge are absolutely second nature even when they are terrified.

I for one am not content just to assume that [the poster] can do his own thing at his own risk; if he doesn’t get it right if – when - the time comes to really test his wonderful memory then he will probably be a hindrance to all around him.
Personally, I would rather sit next to an alert, nervous first-time flier than a bored, over-confident and complacent one: they will be thinking ahead. And that’s why even though I was a professional pilot for 35 years of my working life you will still see me reading the safety card so that I know - as best I might - which way to find the escape doors or windows and to lift the lever the right way, in the dark and possibly in dense smoke.

The phrase “Pride comes before a fall” comes to mind here. And there is also a good old RAF aircrew saying that has saved many a life that I commend to all of us: “Don’t assume – CHECK!”


Last edited by Charlie Whiskey; Apr 3, 2024 at 1:02 pm Reason: Spacing
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 1:07 pm
  #49  
 
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I just worry about all those on here who habitually turn left, they might have a problem in a smoke filled cabin
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 1:48 pm
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by Misco60
You are all wrongly conflating two very different things: the message, and the means of delivery.

Safety information is critically important, and I am quite sure that no-one would disagree with that. But BA's safety briefing is verbose (it could do with being looked at by the Plain English Campaign), and frequently delivered in a rapid, barely comprehensible monotone while the member of cabin crew giving the demonstration giggles and shares a private joke with her colleague at the other end of the cabin.

I must confess Ive never experienced any giggling by cabin crew whilst its going on.

I always take off my headphones and listen out of politeness. Spent a while flying with Mrs S as CC and Id get it in the neck if she saw me not paying attention!!

In terms of the OPs question, I have found on some occasions, difficulty in seeing the crew member. On SH if youre right by the curtain it can be difficult.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 3:56 pm
  #51  
 
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Apologies for the delay in replying, felt it best to let the question sit for a little while.

Apologies to the Mods if the quiz was deemed to have taken us on a divergent course to the original intent of the OP. To answer the OP and to back up what has already been clarified - yes that is normal and approved in terms of demo positions. You can always ask the crew to point out the exits for you in case you are u sure as they begin securing the cabin and also any other safety related question you may have.

Given the OPs question was in relation to the safety briefing - the purpose of which is to impart knowledge to that it is more immediately able to be recalled in an emergency or time critical event - I posed my own question and its had what I expected in terms of responses.

The reason I asked is this, its all fair and well being about to get to an exit using the methods many have posted, but you still score zero points until you are outside the aircraft and away from danger. Fire services that make entry into houses check behind the door they just forced entry through as a front door of a thick acrid smoke filled house/apartment often has the occupants found immediately behind, now incapacitated by the smoke. Your brain can and will loose its ability to remember how to open your own door.

So in a think smoke filled cabin as you are crawling along and find the exit, as JAXBA correctly says, rotate in the direction of the arrow. But if the smoke is that thick and your eyes are stinging remember the following - ALL Boeing main passenger and service door handles rotate towards the aft/tail/rear of the aircraft in order to open them. The exception isthe Boeing 767. Airbus all lift upwards. Hatches/plugs are different and THAT is why its important to have a little look at that card, it is a requirement it shows the correct type and how it operates for that aircraft. Its no good getting to the exit and then not being able to get out, so to link this back with the OP, if in doubt, ask.

Thank you to those who responded - its a zero jeopardy environment here and hopefully ok to ask and have questions answered.

Next time you are on a Boeing and boarding through the main doors, have a look at a pair of main exit doors, the arrows all point aft.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 4:16 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by Sigwx

ALL Boeing main passenger and service door handles rotate towards the aft/tail/rear of the aircraft in order to open them. The exception isthe Boeing 767. Airbus all lift upwards. Hatches/plugs are different and THAT is why its important to have a little look at that card, it is a requirement it shows the correct type and how it operates for that aircraft. Its no good getting to the exit and then not being able to get out, so to link this back with the OP, if in doubt, ask.

Thank you to those who responded - its a zero jeopardy environment here and hopefully ok to ask and have questions answered.

Next time you are on a Boeing and boarding through the main doors, have a look at a pair of main exit doors, the arrows all point aft.
So simple and so useful. Thank you Sigwx . I can honestly say that in the hundreds of flights I have taken over the years, I never thought to look at the common way doors all open depending on the manufacturer. I just assumed looking at the arrows to remind myself in the event of having to actually use one, completely ignorant of the smoke possibly being that thick.

As an aside - last week on a NCE-LGW run, the crew had to get a few pax to move to the exit seats as they were empty. When he started to giove them the instructions he pointed out that the benefit to them is that they will be first out. There were nervous smiles all around.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 4:47 pm
  #53  
 
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Originally Posted by Sigwx
ALL Boeing main passenger and service door handles rotate towards the aft/tail/rear of the aircraft in order to open them. The exception isthe Boeing 767. Airbus all lift upwards.
I must spend most flights sitting on/looking at the port side doors. I thought the answer was the end of the handle (as you look at the door) is at your right hand, and rotate counter-clockwise from roughly 3 oclock to 9 oclock. But clearly that only applies to one side. Glad I never attempted an answer now as I would have only scored 50% thanks for sharing!
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 6:03 pm
  #54  
 
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I often when I hear a safety demo why the positions of the exits are not identified by row number as well as by pointing. Counting rows can often be difficult and most travellers know their own row number and can do simple arithmetic,
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 6:15 pm
  #55  
 
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Like many on here, I have seen the safety demo hundreds of times but I still always pay attention and take a wee look at the safety card to refresh my memory. I also check under my seat/in compartment for my life jacket just in case, so far one has always been there! Another habit is that I keep my passport, wallet and phone in my trouser pockets at takeoff as if something goes wrong then at least I have them if we are evacuated.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 6:24 pm
  #56  
 
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Originally Posted by RGS5526
I often when I hear a safety demo why the positions of the exits are not identified by row number as well as by pointing. Counting rows can often be difficult and most travellers know their own row number and can do simple arithmetic,
The challenge comes when you have to exit through a different cabin. Not only can it be difficult to count rows past the divider, on some airlines the row numbering changes. On Delta narrowbodies, for example, the coach/economy/whatever-you-prefer-to-call-it cabin starts with row 10.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 6:38 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Yes, the 1985 Manchester British Airtours disaster has indicated that some died when they shouldn't have done so, some survived when the circumstances were against them. There is circumstantial evidence that those who listened to the safety briefing were more likely to survive. More generally, from organisations like Solenis, 3M, Caterpillar, Raytheon - these are companies where repetition and reinforcement of safety messages make them safer companies to work for, and do business with, compared to their competitors. Incidentally, it's not just about you: you may feel able to make informed judgements about risk, but if you make a mistake about that, your friends, family, acquaintances are the ones who suffer. You may also have a role to play in helping others in an emergency, being injured yourself isn't a good start point.
If I recall correctly, the biggest predictor of survival in that accident was siting within 6 rows from an operable exit door, otherwise you won't make it out in time and will succumb to smoke inhalation... Good thing I still wear a 3M mask on flights, I reckon this would buy me a few more seconds...

I believe the evacuation standards is 90 seconds for the whole cabin, in a smoke-filled aircraft I would guess if you are not out in 60 seconds you are probably dead. (I assume the standards are that after 90 seconds in thick smoke, you will not make it out alive, that's why it is 90 seconds).

Last edited by nk15; Apr 3, 2024 at 6:45 pm
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 7:03 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by Misco60
I know how to fasten and unfasten my seatbelt
Unsure if this an old wives tale, but isnt this there to remind you that youre using a belt thats unfastened in a different position to your day-to-day belts, eg, car seatbelts? A smoked filled cabin, fear high etc god knows what the brain does to you.

Some other thoughts

All of us imagine wed be the perfect evacuees should we ever be so unfortunate, but until my brain has experienced it, Ill hold my judgement on passengers who disembark with suitcases etc.

I do agree with the posters saying the videos should be shorter and specific to type.

And finally, and arguably my most important point, why do BA still continue to tell pax to stow their screens before theyve demonstrated the brace position? Again - there should be type specific safety vids/demos.
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 7:24 pm
  #59  
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The safety video I would like to see is a demonstration and tips of how to climb over six rows of seats in a smoke-filled cabin and get to the door in 60 seconds, while other pax getting their luggage from the bins... Could some airline please produce that...
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Old Apr 3, 2024, 8:14 pm
  #60  
 
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My apologies to EGLK FLYER for hijacking the thread and I hope amid all the virtue signalling some relevant comment was made.

I do sincerely believe that the safety briefing is useless and perhaps even counterproductive in the current form but perhaps I will start a new thread on this.
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