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BA Holidays Double Tier Points Promotion | 2024 edition

BA Holidays Double Tier Points Promotion | 2024 edition

Old Jan 5, 2024, 4:40 pm
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
There is certainly a clear error here to the extent that both sets of T&Cs are not intended to be published or be in force simultaneously.
I was answering the point made by DeathSlam that companies can avoid being bound by their own published T&Cs if there is a clear error in them, and basically agree with your final paragraph. The case here is a bit peculiar in that we are not talking about a clause in the published T&Cs but the existence of two internally inconsistent T&Cs. I fully agree with you that there must clearly be an error in that very contradiction, but I would have thought that for BA to be able to choose which of the two versions to impose to customers, they would need to demonstrate that out of the two versions one is clearly correct and the other clearly erroneous - in fact, clearly enough that the average customer (rather than "expert" bookers such as the ones who may read FT) should be fairly clear which of the two versions must be correct and which must not.

Now, I'm by no means a specialist so may well have got this wrong, but I would have thought that if an average customer is presented with both sets of conditions, it would not be obvious to them which one of them is wrong. In fact, your very argument that the more favourable set of conditions resembles previously correct and enforced conditions would suggest to me that there is nothing that could possibly be blatantly wrong about them.

I also think that if BA intended to impose one set of conditions to a customer pointing out to the others based on the claim that the "hard" ones were obviously correct (and for the reasons you mention and because indeed, BA knows that when it comes to consumer rights, by default, doubt normally benefits the weaker party ie, the customer, personally, I'd be surprised if they went there) and argued that one set was more readily visible than the other, then surely, that argument would need to be weighed against the counter-argument that the two sets have different dates and that if any customer spotted both sets, they would presumably assume that the posterior-dated set supersedes the anterior one. Incidentally, this means that BA would need to justify that there was not one but really two obvious mistakes here (ie that out of two contradictory sets it should be obvious which one is wrong, and that out of two sets dated differently, it should be obvious that the dates and sequencing are incorrect).

Now to be clear, I'm not saying that your interpretation of what may have happened must be wrong, I genuinely have no clue if it is correct or not, but I am simply arguing that regardless, it seems unlikely to me that your interpretation of which set of conditions is correct and which is not would be obvious to the average customer and if presented with both sets of conditions as they appear, I'm not convinced that a majority of "average passengers" would come to the same conclusion as you even though you may well be right in every aspect of your effort to understand what happened.

Now, one thing I would say is that at this stage, we have actually very little knowledge as to how (and how rigidly) BAEC and BAH are in fact intending to implement various aspects of their T&C, which are conceived loosely or as safety mechanisms, and which are seen as hard "tick it or lose it" conditions. For instance, the little we know of the "non flight elements have to be used" condition seems to suggest that it is an argument that can be used in principle to deny credit but certainly isn't systematically invoked. We know even less about residency and it's not clear how it ever was intended to be used nor even what the criteria would be so we have to operate with a lot of "ifs" and assumptions here, but if we say, for the sake of argument, that BAEC intends for current conditions to include residency however defined (for what it's worth, I'd be flabbergasted if - even within the context of the "hard" T&C, BA was allowed to unilaterally decide to deny credit based on either account location or credit card used if the passenger is considered a UK resident by formal institutions such as the electoral register or hmrc), and if they intend to use that condition strictly and thus intend to deny credit based on that condition, even then, like you, do not necessarily believe that when faced with the existence of contradictory t&cs they would choose to argue that it should have been obvious to customers which set was clear and thus impose the harder set after being challenged. I am also not convinced that if they did, a court - if it ever came to that - would necessarily agree with that argument. My intuition would be that ultimately, if they try to deny based on one set and challenged based on a more lenient set of conditions as they appeared on their own website at the time a booking was made, they would be more likely than not to honour the more lenient conditions.

Ps: for the avoidance of doubt, my argument is not self-serving as this doesn't affect me
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Old Jan 5, 2024, 5:04 pm
  #92  
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Originally Posted by orbitmic
Ps: for the avoidance of doubt, my argument is not self-serving as this doesn't affect me
Are you sure? 😁

It would also be entirely reasonable for the average person to assume the T&Cs correct on 24 November 2023 supersede those that were correct on 27 September 2023. I expect once BA catch up with this little faux pas the 24 November 2023 T&Cs will quietly disappear.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 12:52 am
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
Are you sure? 😁
Well, let's put it that way: the bookings I have made would meet the criteria of either version (so my getting double credit would not enlighten us on which set of criteria are used), including because I begrudgingly made my trip end in the UK even though this was not my ideal scenario. So to my knowledge, the discussion on what applies to recent bookings should not matter to me.

Admittedly, in terms of the substance, I would much prefer the terms currently dated 24/11 to remain so that I regain the flexibility to book trips that start in the UK but end somewhere else going forward (as my trips often work as "tetris" trying to organise, say, three trips with two bookings. If I am honest, I am a bit clueless why BA even bothered with such a weird condition anyway, but when it comes to bookings going forward, I'll probably wait a bit before the next bookings anyway so I'm not holding my breath that the incoherence will remain forever, and if anything, I wouldn't be surprised if BA kept changing rules again several times in the future (possibly adding some constraints and removing others) especially if, as suspected by some upthread, there is an intention to create a system that might be permanent.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 6:59 am
  #94  
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I've just booked a BAH ex JER (with 5 nights hotel) for July 2024.

The BA rep confirmed that this itinerary will qualify for the Double Tier Points promotion.

However, I'm unable to find anything to confirm that JER is considered part of the UK for purposes of this promotion.

Has anyone seen or can send a link that will confirm that an ex JER BAH trip will qualify?

Last edited by LE2; Jan 6, 2024 at 7:10 am
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 7:15 am
  #95  
 
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im curious if they can really check when i check in/out of hotel or car rental. I'll be returning the car a few hours short.
or alternatively i can book a hotel at vegas but have to deal with the destination charge that i may or may not be able to benefit
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 7:34 am
  #96  
 
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Originally Posted by LE2
I've just booked a BAH ex JER (with 5 nights hotel) for July 2024.

The BA rep confirmed that this itinerary will qualify for the Double Tier Points promotion.

However, I'm unable to find anything to confirm that JER is considered part of the UK for purposes of this promotion.

Has anyone seen or can send a link that will confirm that an ex JER BAH trip will qualify?
JER is listed under United Kingdom when you search for flights on BAH. I have also personally had double TPs starting and ending my holidays from JER.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 10:01 am
  #97  
brp
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Originally Posted by GordonMacPherson
im curious if they can really check when i check in/out of hotel or car rental. I'll be returning the car a few hours short.
or alternatively i can book a hotel at vegas but have to deal with the destination charge that i may or may not be able to benefit
With car rentals, anything over a few hours into the next day is generally considered a rental for that day in terms of rate. I would think that, in this case, it would be easy to argue that this was a 5-day rental as this is how it is viewed in the charges, if it came to that. And I doubt it would.

We are planning a stay where we would use the hotel for 1-2 nights at the beginning and 1 night at the end and going elsewhere in between. It is still our room and I would easily conclude that we are "using" the room even if we are not sleeping in it for certain intermediate nights.

I have a strong feeling that nuanced details like these would not be and issue as the burden of researching all of these is beyond what I've seen in capability from BA.

Cheers.

Last edited by brp; Jan 6, 2024 at 10:55 am
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 11:03 am
  #98  
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Originally Posted by brp
With car rentals, anything over a few hours into the next day is generally considered a rental for that day in terms of rate. I would think that, in this case, it would be easy to argue that this was a 5-day rental as this is how it is viewed in the charges, if it came to that. And I doubt it would.

We are planning a stay where we would use the hotel for 1-2 nights at the beginning and 1 night at the end and going elsewhere in between. It is still our room and I would easily conclude that we are "using" the room even if we are not sleeping in it for certain intermediate nights.

I have a strong feeling that nuanced details like these would not be and issue as the burden of researching all of these is beyond what I've seen in capability from BA.

Cheers.
For the sake of clarity, to qualify for this promotion the car hire or hotel component must be for a period of 5 nights.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 11:23 am
  #99  
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Originally Posted by Tobias-UK
For the sake of clarity, to qualify for this promotion the car hire or hotel component must be for a period of 5 nights.
Thanks for the clarification. So, in car rental parlance, I guess that would be 6 days as these are typically listed in days (and hotels are in nights ). So, then I assume that the return is on the 6th day, but a few hours shy of the pickup time.

Cheers.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 11:35 am
  #100  
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Originally Posted by brp
Thanks for the clarification. So, in car rental parlance, I guess that would be 6 days as these are typically listed in days (and hotels are in nights ). So, then I assume that the return is on the 6th day, but a few hours shy of the pickup time.

Cheers.
For the sake of this promotion we should avoid discussion of days, the qualification is based solely on nights - provided the booking covers 5 nights, so a scheduled pick up at or before 23:59 (say Monday) and a scheduled drop off at or after 00:01 (say Saturday) five nights later you should be okay for this promotion even if a flight delay causes a late pick up or an early flight causes an early drop off. Carefully check the pick up and drop off times in the reservation to ensure the 5 night minimum is met.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 11:45 am
  #101  
 
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I think it makes absolute sense to talk about days of car rental, where a day is a block of 24 hours or fraction thereof. Nobody will rent you a car for 5 nights. Try asking and youll get either a blank stare or laughter. That is how cars are rented by every major car rental agency in the world (although I guess there are probably some who do it by the hourand hotels that do it by the hour are another story entirely). The only morons who talk about car rental in nights to my knowledge are BAH. To get BAHs required 5 nights, you have to rent a car for 6 days (i.e., anything over 120 hours). And there is no way to not get at least 5 nights (i.e., cross midnight 5 times) by hiring a car for 6 days.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 12:12 pm
  #102  
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Originally Posted by RichieMc
I think it makes absolute sense to talk about days of car rental, where a day is a block of 24 hours or fraction thereof. Nobody will rent you a car for 5 nights. Try asking and youll get either a blank stare or laughter. That is how cars are rented by every major car rental agency in the world (although I guess there are probably some who do it by the hourand hotels that do it by the hour are another story entirely). The only morons who talk about car rental in nights to my knowledge are BAH. To get BAHs required 5 nights, you have to rent a car for 6 days (i.e., anything over 120 hours). And there is no way to not get at least 5 nights (i.e., cross midnight 5 times) by hiring a car for 6 days.
The car rental must be for 5 nights to qualify for this promotion so discussing days will only cause confusion. Moreover it is irrelevant how major car rental agencies organise their bookings because they are not part of this promotion. To qualify for this promotion the car hire must be booked through British Airways Holidays, cover a period of 5 nights and must be booked in one transaction at the same time as booking the flights that form part of the holiday package.

The T&Cs of this promotion mention only that the car must be booked for at least 5 nights, there is no definition of what constitutes a night, and there is certainly no mention of the car hire having to be for a period of 120 hours or more.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 12:37 pm
  #103  
 
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Translated into straight, simple language that any sane person understands, you need 6 days of car rental.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 12:44 pm
  #104  
 
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And be a UK or USA citizen living in UK-USA?
Still mad about being BA member in the Netherlands and never have a promotion.
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Old Jan 6, 2024, 1:04 pm
  #105  
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Originally Posted by ITravelElite
And be a UK or USA citizen living in UK-USA?
Still mad about being BA member in the Netherlands and never have a promotion.
It appears so, but see the OP and subsequent discussion about the there being two separate versions of the UK T&Cs being published on ba.com - there is wiggle room, one of those editions does not have the residency requirement. It all depends on your own risk tolerance.
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