jamestg

Is there much chance of an order of A321XLRs? Would seem to make some sense in that it can operate those short haul + routes, as well as be able to get across to the East Coast.

Prospero

Back in 2017 when IAG signed the order for 9,000 units of the Recaro SL3510, Alex Cruz was quoted as saying “We particularly need world-class aircraft seats that are utterly reliable and robust, yet also light and easy to maintain, for our extremely busy short-haul flights within Europe. The SL3510 model from Recaro fulfils all of our expectations and offers our demanding customers an outstanding level of comfort”. It makes me wonder if he actually saw the seat let alone sat on it before accepting a product which was fundamentally pitched at the likes of Vueling.

Interestingly though, Are Lingus escaped the constraints of the IAG bulk order and fitted the more polished BL3530 to its new A320neos. It still doesn't have adjustable headrests though.

In response to the main question, I think for the foreseeable future we're stuck with the current Neo configurations for 4 hour+ flights. These are eminently more friendly to the environment and much cheaper to operate than the ceos and wide body aircraft. We can only hope that BA replaces the SL3510s with a newer, more comfortable lightweight seat sooner rather than later

ThatT1Feeling

I fly Wizzair a lot - including this coming Friday from CLJ - LTN. However their tickets are around £50 each way, for which one gets priority boarding and a checked-in bag. No need for fast track as the airport is small and efficient. I know the seats won't have headrests but in almost every other way now they are identical to BA shorthaul, with (often) better, more committed cabin crew.

I'm off to OTP on BA this evening - one way is £150 (3x the Wizzair cost) and actually the better seat (complete with headrest) on BA is one of the reasons I still consider BA for Romania. If I were in one of these NEO cheap seats I really would be paying £100 more for a packet of crisps and some water.

KARFA

So why do you fly with BA if easyJet is often cheaper? tbh I am not convinced easyJet is cheaper or much cheaper most of the time

as a BA gold you have a very good chance of avoiding those seats tbh.

the conclusion is these seats are bad regardless of airline, but the ways things have always gone across the industry I suspect you would be doing quite a good king Canute impression if you think anyone could hold back the tide. As noted, at least on BA you should usually be able to avoid those seats.

gw76

Not sure that solves the issue in Question. It could make it worse if same set up for a 7hr flight. Its all about the cost benefits of ‘light weight’ seats.
Bring back the multicoloured comfy plush soft 70’s 707/747 armchairs even in Y

Never Stansted

EZY's pricing has been weird recently - even lower base fares than usual, but ludicrous charges for priority boarding / larger carry-on. Plenty of LGW-JERs about at £20 base and £45 for the carry-on. Does mean that if you pay for easyJet plus you get very good value over the course of the year. I fly about 15-20 sectors with them a year, usually HBO, so definitely get my money's worth.

Quite funny that BA get slated for the seats and EZY get praised: https://thepointsguy.co.uk/news/easyjet-a321neo/

tuonopepper

It just seems to be the direction of travel now, the Aer Lingus A321 NEO seats look similar from pics I've seen and they are flying them TATL.

Having done JFK/MAD on an Iberia A350 (presumably NEO), 6 hrs in a Premium Economy seat was enough really, they seemed very lightly padded compared to other PE seats I've experienced.

I expect BA will try to deploy them wherever they can if it makes a route more profitable, PX will indeed 'suffer' and have choices to make. Will enough PX care enough to walk away in numbers that make BA sit up and pay attention - I doubt it.

KARFA

I do agree these seats aren’t great.

But just picking up on this suggestion that it’s basically direction of travel for the industry and can’t be stopped - has any European airline (premium or not) gone in the other direction and introduced more comfortable seats and/or increased seat pitch in recent times?

cbyrne92

In complete agreement and support of what you are saying, even if they did, it would only attract those of us willing to pay for a better experience and as such, those who typically pay the least, would stay in the sub-par product.

CB

Prospero

European carriers are all heading in the same direction with their Neos with lightweight slimline seats in the range of 8 to 9 kg per seat unit. So for the A320neo with the SpaceFlex rear galley/wc module its either 180 or 186 seats depending on number of front galley/storage modules fitted.

While sticking firmly to this approach, TAP manage to increase the pitch on the first ten rows of its A320neo to 33" by eliminating the forward wardrobe and reducing the capacity of the forward galley. The downside being the row pitch behind the wing is a crippling 28". Whereas BA, LH, LX, A3, SK, IB universally offer 30" ahead of the wing and 29" behind the wing

orbitmic

Whilst I can completely accept the « it’s what it is and money saving argument, I find the easyJet/ wiz’s air argument very Anglo-centric:

just a reminder that your paxto cai or lca may well be a premium economy pax who has just transferred from sy,d, ezz or lax.

I’m also a bit sceptical on the « status spares you the bad seats » argument: I’m not a big user of CAI flights, but I do lca a fair bit and it’s not unusual for the CE cabin to extend all the way to the last row of « good » seats.

again, as I said completely understand the economics of this but in terms of comfort implications I’d say that from experience, at least half of those on these flights seem to be connecting (not least often including me!! )

navylad

Presumably the majority are connecting onto other economy or premium economy routes, since one has to go out of ones way to book an economy short-haul with a J or F connection.

I personally think the important thing here is that people are aware that these are less comfortable seats, and some people dont feel they can do a longer sector in them and consumers can make choice knowing the facts. If it becomes uneconomical for the industry to use these seats or that seat pitch, I'm sure things will change, but from all accounts, BA, nor other airlines aren't struggling to sell these seats at present.

Not sure why you find other airlines using the same seat to be an anglo-centric argument.

Nor do i get the argument that BA advertises iteslf as a premium airline; european fares are mainly advertised by price '£35 to Paris One Way' seams to be the advert on the tube at the moment.

Thanks for highlighting, and mostly useful replies hopefully has reminded the FT community to consider this issue when making bookings. .

camdentown

Good point orbitmic - at what point might the uncomfy seats start to inhibit connecting traffic and make passengers favour more direct flights with other airlines (from different alliances) ?

Andriyko

It is, of course, subjective but I see nothing horrible about these seats. My husband flew at the back 3 weeks ago as Row 27 was the only one available following a cancelation, he's tall (180cm) and has long legs but he can't remember a single 'horrible' thing about the seat. A flat bed it ain't, but it is a completely acceptable seat even on longer flights.

Probably at the same point that the introduction of BoB did, that is at no point. Even though the same posters painstakingly argued otherwise back then.

FlightDetective

I'm sorry, but that is just wrong.

The Aer Lingus A321neo LR aircraft used on transatlantic flights have these seats in economy class -



They are definitely not using those crappy Recaro slimlines on long-haul services.

You might be thinking of the Aer Lingus A320neo which is being used on European flights, which someone up thread mentioned has a slightly uprated version of those slimline seats you see down the back at BA. Those aircraft never fly transatlantic at Aer Lingus.

Just had to throw this out there, because Aer Lingus transatlantic is as competitive in every class as all the other airlines flying across the pond.