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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Apr 12, 2023, 3:59 pm
  #631  
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Originally Posted by mrhocA
A little question for those with more experience: I flew US-LHR-EU yesterday/today.
If it was indeed today and in the absence of the exact flight numbers, there is a fair chance that it was the poor weather that led to the cancellation and therefore out of scope for EC261. But in terms of making the claim, there should be a text box appearing at some point where you can put in the full flight details.
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Old Apr 12, 2023, 4:01 pm
  #632  
 
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Originally Posted by mrhocA
A little question for those with more experience: I flew US-LHR-EU yesterday/today. Five hours before the US departure I received an e-mail that my LHR-EU afternoon flight was cancelled and I was offered to accept to be rebooked on the evening flight which I of course accepted. That evening flight arrived at my final destination with a small delay and the total delay compared to my original itinerary was a little over 4 hours. I should get the compensation for this right (except there are some valid extreme circumstances)? Is the compensation calculated based on the US-EU distance (>3500 km) or the LHR-EU destination? How do i make the claim correctly, in the claims web interface i can only select the new rebooked flight and not the cancelled original flight or the entire US-EU route. - Thank you.
You'll get your compensation fairly easily if BA thinks that the reason for the cancellation wasn't exceptional. There will of course be cases where BA will deny your claim but you're actually entitled to the compensation, and that's where it may be necessary to take the matter to alternative dispute resolution (CEDR).

The band determining the amount of compensation and delay threshold is based on the Great Circle distance from your origin to your final destination, ignoring your actual or planned routing. This case therefore falls into the longest distance band (3500+km) which means 520 in compensation for a 4+ hour delay.

​​​​I've not had any issues with submitting a claim in this sort of circumstance before (missed connection and rebooked) - do you want to upload a screenshot of where you're struggling?
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Old Apr 12, 2023, 4:12 pm
  #633  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
If it was indeed today and in the absence of the exact flight numbers, there is a fair chance that it was the poor weather that led to the cancellation and therefore out of scope for EC261. But in terms of making the claim, there should be a text box appearing at some point where you can put in the full flight details.
Originally Posted by flarmip
You'll get your compensation fairly easily if BA thinks that the reason for the cancellation wasn't exceptional. There will of course be cases where BA will deny your claim but you're actually entitled to the compensation, and that's where it may be necessary to take the matter to alternative dispute resolution (CEDR).

The band determining the amount of compensation and delay threshold is based on the Great Circle distance from your origin to your final destination, ignoring your actual or planned routing. This case therefore falls into the longest distance band (3500+km) which means 520 in compensation for a 4+ hour delay.

​​​​I've not had any issues with submitting a claim in this sort of circumstance before (missed connection and rebooked) - do you want to upload a screenshot of where you're struggling?
Thanks!
The cancelled flight was BA942 (LHR-DUS) on the 12th of April. I received the cancellation e-mail in the evening of the 11th (UK-time).
If I can't figure it out in the form tomorrow I will return with a more specific question.
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Old Apr 12, 2023, 4:38 pm
  #634  
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Originally Posted by mrhocA
Thanks!
The cancelled flight was BA942 (LHR-DUS) on the 12th of April. I received the cancellation e-mail in the evening of the 11th (UK-time).
If I can't figure it out in the form tomorrow I will return with a more specific question.
BA942 to DUS for 12 April was cancelled for weather related reasons. BA won't be paying you compensation, and your only hope there would be appealing to CEDR (which is an entirely virtual process so it doesn't matter where you live) who may find that BA didn't take all reasonable measures. I don't fancy your chances though.
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Old Apr 13, 2023, 11:19 pm
  #635  
 
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BA55 - 12th April - 4 hours delay

Hi there,

I was on BA55 on 12th April. Captain said aircraft got hit by lightning on the incoming flight, so they had to go through many checks and paperwork that took well over 5 hours. We arrived 4 hours late at Johannesburg.
I have read somewhere that lightning strikes are not a valid excuse for airlines to avoid paying compensation.
Has BA loaded the correct reason for the delay?
Is there a way to check?

Many thanks.
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 12:39 am
  #636  
 
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Can someone please let me know why BA5 (LHR-HND) on April 12th (landing April 13th JST) was delayed by several hours, as this had the knock-on effect of delaying our BA6 even before the volcanic eruption changed the flight path.
I'll need this as it meant we missed our connection to EDI, and had to stay the night in the Sofitel and get the 1st flight up this morning (sitting on flight waiting to depart now).

Cheers, Stephen.
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 1:21 am
  #637  
 
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If you accept the rebooking can you still claim on the basis of the total delay?
thanks
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 1:25 am
  #638  
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Originally Posted by dnajockey
If you accept the rebooking can you still claim on the basis of the total delay?
thanks
Is this a hypothetical question or relating to a specific event?
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 1:30 am
  #639  
 
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Re; BA5

BA7 (LHR/HND) was delayed the same day due to strong winds affecting arrivals and departures.
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 1:31 am
  #640  
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Originally Posted by stephenjc
Can someone please let me know why BA5 (LHR-HND) on April 12th (landing April 13th JST) was delayed by several hours, as this had the knock-on effect of delaying our BA6 even before the volcanic eruption changed the flight path.
I'll need this as it meant we missed our connection to EDI, and had to stay the night in the Sofitel and get the 1st flight up this morning (sitting on flight waiting to depart now).

Cheers, Stephen.
It's showing as ZO operational, so I imagine the usual delays in ground handling / towing. BA6 was only an hour late departing, so they did try for a fast turnaround, but you were 3 hours late into LHR. So I would say 1 hour was BA fault, maybe a bit more, 2 hours "flying conditions on the day".
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 1:47 am
  #641  
 
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Originally Posted by dnajockey
If you accept the rebooking can you still claim on the basis of the total delay?
thanks
If your flight is cancelled/retimed less than 14 days prior travel, then yes. Otherwise not. Flight timings can also be changed less than 14 days prior to travel with impunity, so long as the change is sufficiently minor (the definition depends on the distance and whether it's done 7-14 days prior to travel, or <7 days).
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 5:35 am
  #642  
 
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Thoughts on claim validity

Last April, I travelled AMS-LHR-JFK-SFO with BA Holidays, all flights on a single reservation with BA flight numbers, JFK-SFO operated by AA under BA codeshare (important given CS caselaw below)

The JFK-SFO flight was cancelled whilst onboard after waiting on the runway for 2 hours. We were re-booked the following day and arrived ~15 hours later than scheduled.

There was bad weather in NYC area at the time, but I have records that all other JFK/EWR-SFO/LAX flights at/around the same time (~7-10 flights) made it without being cancelled, i.e. my flight was the only one cancelled that day / time.

Whilst onboard, the captain mentioned that the routing options given to us by ATC were not compatible with the level of fuel onboard the plane - this was despite sitting at an airport with plenty of fuel options available. Additionally, the pilot mentioned that they could not go back to the gate and refuel because the flight crew would go out of hours - this was because one of them had flown in from elsewhere to operate this flight.

My view here is that (a) the bad weather was not in the airline's control, however (b) both the lack of fuel in the jet and the lack of pilot hours / available crew on standby was within their control.

Given CS vs. Czech, and the fact that all other similar flights managed to fly (meaning the weather was clearly not insurmountable), I think I have a 261 claim. I have submitted to BA, and they're saying it is weather-related and as such no compensation is due. I've asked if this is their final response, and advised that I have records re. all other flights etc. showing they flew, but I fully anticipate this going to CEDR.

So key question: based on the info above, do people think I have a claim here?
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 5:46 am
  #643  
 
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Originally Posted by thomasd21
Last April, I travelled AMS-LHR-JFK-SFO with BA Holidays, all flights on a single reservation with BA flight numbers, JFK-SFO operated by AA under BA codeshare (important given CS caselaw below)

The JFK-SFO flight was cancelled whilst onboard after waiting on the runway for 2 hours. We were re-booked the following day and arrived ~15 hours later than scheduled.

There was bad weather in NYC area at the time, but I have records that all other JFK/EWR-SFO/LAX flights at/around the same time (~7-10 flights) made it without being cancelled, i.e. my flight was the only one cancelled that day / time.

Whilst onboard, the captain mentioned that the routing options given to us by ATC were not compatible with the level of fuel onboard the plane - this was despite sitting at an airport with plenty of fuel options available. Additionally, the pilot mentioned that they could not go back to the gate and refuel because the flight crew would go out of hours - this was because one of them had flown in from elsewhere to operate this flight.

My view here is that (a) the bad weather was not in the airline's control, however (b) both the lack of fuel in the jet and the lack of pilot hours / available crew on standby was within their control.

Given CS vs. Czech, and the fact that all other similar flights managed to fly (meaning the weather was clearly not insurmountable), I think I have a 261 claim. I have submitted to BA, and they're saying it is weather-related and as such no compensation is due. I've asked if this is their final response, and advised that I have records re. all other flights etc. showing they flew, but I fully anticipate this going to CEDR.

So key question: based on the info above, do people think I have a claim here?
In principle, yes. CS vs Czech makes clear that the fact this was a non-EU (or UK, for UK261) to non-EU/UK flight is irrelevant as it was a through booking under a BA codeshare.

The test isn't just whether the immediate cause of the delay/cancellation was outside of the inherent activity of the carrier (i.e. "exceptional"), but whether the delay could have been avoided if "all reasonable measures" had been applied. The fact that all other flights around the same time operated, and that the reason for the cancellation was ultimately because of crew timing out, suggests that at the very least the latter test isn't met, and so BA are liable. I'd also be amazed if the next available flight with seats was one arriving 16 hours later - it sounds like they failed or refused to consider earlier flights from non-OW carriers, which again is something that militates against a claim that "all reasonable measures" were applied.

Obviously CEDR may have their own view on this, but that's the argument I would put forward.
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 5:58 am
  #644  
 
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Originally Posted by flarmip
In principle, yes. CS vs Czech makes clear that the fact this was a non-EU (or UK, for UK261) to non-EU/UK flight is irrelevant as it was a through booking under a BA codeshare.

The test isn't just whether the immediate cause of the delay/cancellation was outside of the inherent activity of the carrier (i.e. "exceptional"), but whether the delay could have been avoided if "all reasonable measures" had been applied. The fact that all other flights around the same time operated, and that the reason for the cancellation was ultimately because of crew timing out, suggests that at the very least the latter test isn't met, and so BA are liable. I'd also be amazed if the next available flight with seats was one arriving 16 hours later - it sounds like they failed or refused to consider earlier flights from non-OW carriers, which again is something that militates against a claim that "all reasonable measures" were applied.

Obviously CEDR may have their own view on this, but that's the argument I would put forward.
Thank you - these were my thoughts too. Good to see I'm not going mad...
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Old Apr 14, 2023, 6:19 am
  #645  
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Originally Posted by thomasd21
Thank you - these were my thoughts too. Good to see I'm not going mad...
And I would agree that you may well have a claim. I think CEDR is ok here, since "all reasonable measures" doesn't appear to be demonstrated. This can be quite a high bar for an airline to overcome, but a key piece of evidence will be if other flights on the same route made it, particularly if they made it with delays under 3 hours, then it will be difficult to claim extraordinary circumstances.
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