Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > British Airways | Executive Club
Reload this Page >

The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Link to the full original text of the regulations in PDF format

Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
Brexit and Covid pointers: see post 8
Print Wikipost

The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Mar 30, 2023, 1:14 am
  #586  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA Gold, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 581
Originally Posted by BusinessOnly
They have come back to me and said I'm not eligible as the incoming flight from LHR-MIA was delayed to medical situation which meant a passenger had to be offloaded after boarding was completed at Heathrow. Kind of sucks and I'm not sure what else i can do as to whether this is correct or not? I certainly know over an hour of the delay was cause whilst in MIA as the plane had an issue when we'd all boarded and jet bridge had to come back and techs had to come on the plane.
I was on the same flight and have (eventually) received late arrival compensation of 260 (50% reduction for being between 3-4hrs late). No consistency in decision making. Guess it all depends on who reviews your application and what sort of a day they are having....
JeffBHD is offline  
Old Mar 30, 2023, 12:50 pm
  #587  
IHG Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, IC Amb
Posts: 5,547
Ugh...claim denied.

​​​​​​https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/34795004-post2809.html


Here is their response:

​​​​​​An update from British Airways

We'd like to thank you for your patience while we got back to you about this.

Were sorry it was necessary to delay your flight to London Heathrow on 28th November 2022 and understand why you needed to get in contact about this. We take all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight and well always consider if there are any alternative solutions available before we make a decision. We are sincerely apologize for this appalling experience and inconvenience caused to you.

Your claim's been refused because BA0303 on 28th November 2022 was delayed due to restrictions imposed by air traffic control which is outside British Airways control. Hence we cannot compensate you.

We apologize for the inconvenience caused to you due to the delay of your flight. We understand it must have been extremely difficult for you. This is not the experience we want our passengers to have. We will certainly consider the feedback shared by you and we will ensure that you have better journeys with us in future. We appreciate your patience and apologies for the delay in response.

We take all reasonable measures to avoid disruption to a flight and we always consider if there are any other alternative solutions before we make a decision. The delay was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.

Thanks again for following this up with us. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and I hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.

Best regards

Baljeet Kaur
British Airways Customer Relations






Do I have any other options here?
355F1 is online now  
Old Mar 30, 2023, 1:13 pm
  #588  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,965
Originally Posted by 355F1
Do I have any other options here?
Yes. Take it to CEDR, you can do that straight away.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Mar 30, 2023, 9:42 pm
  #589  
IHG Contributor Badge
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AA EXP, IHG PLT, IC Amb
Posts: 5,547
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Yes. Take it to CEDR, you can do that straight away.
I replied to their message and this is their reply:

An update from British Airways

We’re sorry you’re unhappy with the outcome of your claim and we understand why you needed to get back in contact with us about this.

I’ve had another look at your claim for compensation and I’ve taken time to make sure our response is accurate and up-to-date. Based on this, our decision hasn’t changed and the response you’ve received about the eligibility of your compensation claim are correct.

Your claim's been refused because BA0303 on 28th November 2022 was delayed due to restrictions imposed by air traffic control slot delay which is outside British Airways control. Hence we cannot compensate you.

The information we have provided in rejecting your claim has been taken from our Operations Control Manager's daily log. We consider this to be proof of the circumstances surrounding the delay of your flight. We do not provide copies of these to passengers as these documents, and our maintenance records, contain sensitive business information.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 and The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licencing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 states a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances, that couldn’t have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. This means you’re not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.

If you would like to know more about compensation, please visit our pages on ba.com.

Thanks again for contacting us.

Best regards

Baljeet Kaur

Last edited by 355F1; Mar 31, 2023 at 1:28 pm
355F1 is online now  
Old Mar 31, 2023, 6:13 am
  #590  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Derbyshire,UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 115
Ba67-09/02/23

Missed connection arrived 24 hours late. Claim for compensation & hotel expenses submitted 24/02/23
killaypirate is offline  
Old Mar 31, 2023, 6:17 am
  #591  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Derbyshire,UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, IHG Gold
Posts: 115
List of compensation claims by flight number

Does anybody think this a good idea as a post?
Title format flight number-dd/mm/yy
Any advice or support could be in a separate post
​​​​​​can be edited to show progress & result to keep others informed.

see my earlier post entitled Ba67-09/02/23 for example
killaypirate is offline  
Old Mar 31, 2023, 6:48 am
  #592  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,965
Originally Posted by 355F1
I replied to their message and this is their reply:An update from British Airways

Were sorry youre unhappy with the outcome of your claim and we understand why you needed to get back in contact with us about this.
I guess you haven't yet had a chance to read other posts in this thread and in last year's thread. There is zero point arguing this is BA, you are wasting your time, you are wasting the airline's time. Only very rarely do they change their answer. Luckily here they seem to have stuck to their guns in double quick time, it wouldn't be unusual to wait quite a few weeks for that reply. So same message as before: go to CEDR and see there is the adjudicator feels all reasonable measures were taken
KARFA and 355F1 like this.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Apr 2, 2023, 12:51 pm
  #593  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The North
Posts: 1,858
A belated reply but thank you for the input flarmip, corporate-wage-slave , and Sigwx. I'll pass on the information, but I wonder if they didn't push sufficiently hard for rerouting as they didn't realise that was an option (I think they got an automated 'flight cancelled, you have been rebooked the next day' email and just accepted it. Agree with CWS, next time they should ask FlyerTalk at the time

Originally Posted by flarmip
The question worth investigating is whether BA could have got them to YUL any earlier by rebooking them on alternative carriers. NCL doesn't have a huge number of flights but I'd be surprised if there wouldn't have been an option via AMS.

If there was no earlier alternative, then if there were indeed slot restrictions your friend will likely be out of luck.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I remember thinking at the time that BA was going to decline all claims, there was significant disruption and the weather forecast didn't give much notice of it either. But if the passenger feels that not all reasonable measures were taken (re-routing via Paris springs to mind) then that would be worth sending to CEDR. It's probably better they talk to you / Flyertalk at the time mind!
Originally Posted by Sigwx
Yes there were indeed significant flow restrictions that day... Eventually something has to give and there are often proactive cancellations when the fog finally materialises. The ATC flow restriction comes in overnight but a forecast of significant fog does tend to trigger an earlier demand vs capacity process. I cant say for certain but I would almost be certain this cancellation will be listed as WEAN, meaning weather.
​​​​​​​
squawk is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2023, 6:09 pm
  #594  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver
Programs: AB BA Waterloo Mama Mia
Posts: 1,200
Having assisted Mrs. Testycal with a FlyDubai claim this year ex TLV under Israeli law I realized that the compensation scheme is more generous. It appears to me that the difference is a BA refusal does not lead to a CEDR type resolution process but to the Israeli Courts instead which perhaps is a good reason to claim under EC261 versus the Israeli consumer law counterpart. Thoughts?
testycal is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2023, 5:47 am
  #595  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Leicestershire / Dubai
Programs: BA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium Elite & Lifetime Gold, Heathrow Rewards Premium, Tesco Clubcard
Posts: 668
I raised a couple of issues regarding with an inbound Montreal > LHR flight as the touchscreen was not responsive, both USB ports did not work and the tray table would not move back or forth (cabin was WT+).

However, the customer service agent also apologised for the outbound LHR > Montreal flight being delayed, which I did not even raise (I think it was delayed by around 1 hour).

30,000 Avios awarded.
Paren is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2023, 7:38 am
  #596  
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 12
Unsure whether to submit claim. Advise appreciated

Hello. Id appreciate any input. Three of us flew from JFK to LHR on the 1/11/22. Mid - Atlantic; we returned to St John airport due to a passenger unfortunately needing medical attention.
We stayed on the tarmac at St Johns for ~6 hours.
We were then advised that the medical kit could not be replenished at this airport and so we had to turn around and return to JFK.
essentially the flight was cancelled whilst we were on it.
We were put onto the next available flight which was essentially 24 hours exact pay after the original.
Does this fall into the category of outside of BAs control?

Our thoughts have been with the unwell passenger and their family.

thank you for your time and any advise/opinion
Epicmillion is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2023, 8:09 am
  #597  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 64,965
I remember this one happening and being curious why it took so long at St John's. They can do a stop and ship out in under an hour there, but if the items used on the patient onboard were on the Minimum Equipment List (oxygen?) then it's no go for the Atlantic leg (not sure it is for the JFK return either).

Now this is going to be interesting to me, but perhaps not for you. BA will probably say "extraordinary circumstances, medical emergency, unusual MEL use". And therefore not pay EC261, and there is some justification for that. But there is another side to this: St John's is specifically chosen by BA and many airlines for medical emergencies due to a combination of speedy deployment, a first rate hospital very close by, the Canadian rather than American finance system for health care, and not being too far off route. So I think there is a strong argument for saying that BA should have their MEL stored up in Newfoundland and be in a position to replenish from there. Presumably they don't do this for cost related reasons. So while the diversion for this instance is extraordinary, not endemic aviation activity, BA are still liable for the recovery. To quote the relevant CJEU case, it's a Peškov incident. So if BA declines, I would take it to CEDR, quoting Peškov. This case indicates that how airlines recover from an extraordinary circumstances is covered by EC261.

Hopefully Sigwx can comment on whether I've got the MEL side correct.
Sigwx, testycal, Paren and 1 others like this.
corporate-wage-slave is online now  
Old Apr 5, 2023, 10:56 am
  #598  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,471
I'd agree that the MEL will be the issue here and that regulation will trump any claim. I can't see the timings or any other detail this far past the event, but it would seem that the M5 medical kit has been opened and thus a replacement is required. It may be that partially the delay was caused whilst seeking what is known as a 'special event authorisation' for one sector only to a main base. 'Main base' for BA is generally LGW/LHR where time, resources and equipment are available to rectify faults etc. Given the timings involved flight time limitations would also have been an issue so a single sector recovery to JFK was likely the most sensible option for onwards dispersal of pax. The opening of an M5 kit can potentially scupper any subsequent dispatch and whilst St Johns is known as a medical diversion field, the weather at other airfields in Nova Scotia as will as any Medlink intervention may well have driven the nominated diversion decision. We won't know as we are obviously not privy to such detail.
The MEL is determined by the manufacture, their state of registry and that of the operator, an airline can't make a MEL any less limiting than either state's regulator. Given the nature of the M5 kit, it would be unreasonable to expect one to be held at every possible diversion station on the network, the contents are frankly too lucrative to the unscrupulous. It appears that whist all sensible options where explored, regulation out trumped those efforts. I'd put this occurrence down to a ' s*I$ happens' event and hence the existence of travel insurance for any losses insured.
We don't mess with FTLs or MELs, the CAA have made it abundantly clear that they will prosecute first and review a prosecution decision second. Meanwhile it is our individual licenses on the line, as well as livelihoods.

The only avenue for a claim in my view is whether or not BA should roster all east coast US as 3 crew trips as opposed to 2 crew. I doubt there would be much scope for this either given the rough timings.
Sigwx is offline  
Old Apr 6, 2023, 9:28 am
  #599  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 3,955
Off topic, re. a non EU261 claim, such as with a downgrade, product or service issue, is there a time period to submit by?
pazza2000 is offline  
Old Apr 6, 2023, 10:00 am
  #600  
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: FL390 or the iron way
Programs: BA GGL, SAS EBG
Posts: 2,121
Originally Posted by pazza2000
Off topic, re. a non EU261 claim, such as with a downgrade, product or service issue, is there a time period to submit by?
The statute of limitations, basically - i.e. if you took the matter to Court, you'd have to submit your claim form within 6 years of the flight.
pazza2000 likes this.
flarmip is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.