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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Nov 8, 2023, 3:21 am
  #2341  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: London, UK
Programs: BAEC GGL/GFl, HH Diamond, BW Diamond, Virgin Voyages Deep Blue Extra, Blue Peter Badge Holder
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Are BA trying it on? This was the reply to my claim for the cancelled BA280 LAX to LHR on Sunday (5 Nov 23). I was rebooked (initially offered downgrade from J to Y on AA on a 3 hour later flight, but this was changed to flying on VS 2hr 50 mins earlier in J upon request).

An update from British Airways



We’re sorry it was necessary to cancel your flight from Los Angeles on 05 November and understand why you needed to get in contact about this. We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling/delaying a flight and we’ll always consider if there are any alternative solutions available before we make a decision. We'd also like to thank you for your patience while we got back to you about this.



Your claim's been refused because BA0280 on 05 November was cancelled because the aircraft was damaged whilst operating the previous flight. As a result of this, mandatory inspections had to be carried out. These generally take around four hours and have to be completed before the aircraft can operate. During the inspections, damage to the aircraft was found, which meant repairs had to be carried out before the aircraft could operate.





We take all reasonable measures to avoid disruption to a flight and we always consider if there are any other alternative solutions before we make a decision. The cancellation was out of our control and caused unforeseen disruption to our schedule.

As you mentioned, you were rebooked to fly on VS 008 on 05 November departing at 1800. I'm unable to verify the departure time. You'd need to have confirmation from Virgin with regard to this departure time in order for me to evaluate the case for any compensation.

We're sorry that Virgin didn't have a lounge in Los Angeles, and understand why you felt the service was unmatched.

We value your loyalty as a Gold Guest List Executive member, and know this experience did not meet our usual standards. I’ve added 10,000 Avios to your Executive Club account, and hope this goes some way towards making up for what happened.



Thanks again for following this up with us. Please feel free to contact us if we can help you any further and I hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.
navylad is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2023, 3:45 am
  #2342  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Originally Posted by navylad
Are BA trying it on? This was the reply to my claim for the cancelled BA280 LAX to LHR on Sunday (5 Nov 23). I was rebooked (initially offered downgrade from J to Y on AA on a 3 hour later flight, but this was changed to flying on VS 2hr 50 mins earlier in J upon request).
There are several moving parts here. So correct me if I've got this wrong but
- BA cancelled (as opposed to delayed) your original BA280? It makes a difference if BA actually ran the service later
- You were able to go VS in J instead, but that meant leaving 2 hrs 50 minutes early, and arriving something similar into London, so around 3 hours early compared to your Plan A?

Cancellation has an "extraordinary circumstance" clause to it, but it needs to exclude intrinsic events, intrinsic to flying an aircraft. So if the damage was done by wear and tear from weather events, or a bit of FOD whacking up on landing then that's intrinsic. If I suspect it's is lightning damage, then it needs to happen on the LHR-LAX sector specifically, and while BA can have some time to check out the aircraft, at a certain point it becomes BA's own fault if things drag out. 4 hours seems at the top end of this. Now what I'm further suspecting is that crew may have timed out too hence the cancellation. If so, then that's shifting into the "all reasonable measures" area. So it is not reasonable for BA to have a spare 777 in LAX hanging around for bad stuff, but it is reasonable to expect BA to manage the crew so that they don't time out. In other words, this case is really a "details matter" scenario. I can see circumstances where BA will be correct in denying compensation (VS does have lounge access to the Star Alliance lounge in LAX btw). But equally other circumstances may mean they have got this wrong.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 4:10 am
  #2343  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
There are several moving parts here. So correct me if I've got this wrong but
- BA cancelled (as opposed to delayed) your original BA280? It makes a difference if BA actually ran the service later
- You were able to go VS in J instead, but that meant leaving 2 hrs 50 minutes early, and arriving something similar into London, so around 3 hours early compared to your Plan A?

Cancellation has an "extraordinary circumstance" clause to it, but it needs to exclude intrinsic events, intrinsic to flying an aircraft. So if the damage was done by wear and tear from weather events, or a bit of FOD whacking up on landing then that's intrinsic. If I suspect it's is lightning damage, then it needs to happen on the LHR-LAX sector specifically, and while BA can have some time to check out the aircraft, at a certain point it becomes BA's own fault if things drag out. 4 hours seems at the top end of this. Now what I'm further suspecting is that crew may have timed out too hence the cancellation. If so, then that's shifting into the "all reasonable measures" area. So it is not reasonable for BA to have a spare 777 in LAX hanging around for bad stuff, but it is reasonable to expect BA to manage the crew so that they don't time out. In other words, this case is really a "details matter" scenario. I can see circumstances where BA will be correct in denying compensation (VS does have lounge access to the Star Alliance lounge in LAX btw). But equally other circumstances may mean they have got this wrong.
Thanks, really appreciate your reply. My reading of their email, and the timings of the cancellation(0456 GMT for a flight due to depart 23 hours 54 mins later)? It would have been ‘damage’ on the sector into LHR prior to the incoming sector.

I appreciate they have provided a lack of detail, so I will respond asking for further detail or a final decision?

Also of note, they have stated BA280, but it was actually the BA268 that I was on and was cancelled.

And yes, sadly the lounge was an error on my part, I’d searched on Virgin’s website and they had no details of a lounge and I submitted my claim in the morning prior to the replacement flight.

Last edited by navylad; Nov 8, 2023 at 4:41 am
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 4:19 am
  #2344  
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Originally Posted by navylad
Thanks, really appreciate your reply. My reading of their email, and the timings of the cancellation(0456 GMT for a flight due to depart 23 hours 54 mins later)?
Yes, I would ask to simply confirm that this is their final position on the matter, and then go to CEDR. CEDR will then either throw out the details, so you can make a more informed decision, or offer you 75% in order for you to go quietly.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 6:32 am
  #2345  
formerly JackDann
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Will keep this one short, but will try and summarise a situation a family member finds themselves in regarding a trip to AMS in Feb.

- Had a 125- Voucher and used this to book a flight to AMS, received booking confirmation.
- Arrived at airport to check-in and was then told to phone BA as ticket couldn't be issued
- Contacted BA and was told that the 125- voucher has already been used and this was the reason for ticket not being issued
- Replacement flight to AMS booked with KLM
- Complained to BA in Feb and this week they have responded stating that 'The Voucher was refunded to the original payment method' (asked them to confirm this is the case, but no reason for me to believe it wasn't)

To me, it appears that this may have been an FTV which has been refunded and was no longer valid, however BA's systems still allowed them to proceed with the reservation. I'm not really sure where this leaves them - I was very on the ball with my FTV's and ticketing, but could absolutely see how anybody else could make this mistake and I certainly feel like British Airways could have done more in this matter. Not sure how far I would fancy fighting this one personally, but would like to give them some advice - thoughts?
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 6:47 am
  #2346  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by JD1905
Will keep this one short, but will try and summarise a situation a family member finds themselves in regarding a trip to AMS in Feb.

- Had a 125- Voucher and used this to book a flight to AMS, received booking confirmation.
- Arrived at airport to check-in and was then told to phone BA as ticket couldn't be issued
- Contacted BA and was told that the 125- voucher has already been used and this was the reason for ticket not being issued
- Replacement flight to AMS booked with KLM
- Complained to BA in Feb and this week they have responded stating that 'The Voucher was refunded to the original payment method' (asked them to confirm this is the case, but no reason for me to believe it wasn't)

To me, it appears that this may have been an FTV which has been refunded and was no longer valid, however BA's systems still allowed them to proceed with the reservation. I'm not really sure where this leaves them - I was very on the ball with my FTV's and ticketing, but could absolutely see how anybody else could make this mistake and I certainly feel like British Airways could have done more in this matter. Not sure how far I would fancy fighting this one personally, but would like to give them some advice - thoughts?
If a booking confirmation was received, then unless said booking was later cancelled by the pax, the booking stands. Whilst BA would have the right to recover any amount refunded in error, that doesn't mean that they had the right to unilaterally (and presumably without notification) cancel the booking.

EU/UK261 sets the bar pretty low in terms of what counts as a "confirmed booking" - having "other proof" of being assured travel is sufficient. So if your family member had a booking confirmation email that is plenty for their rights to come into play. You'd be looking at expenses (cost of new KLM flight and food/drink if delayed by 2+ hours) plus IDB compensation of £220. There could be an argument that the IDB compo is halved if they were rebooked so as to arrive less than 2 hours late, but either way there would be a compensation entitlement.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 7:09 am
  #2347  
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by navylad
Are BA trying it on? This was the reply to my claim for the cancelled BA280 LAX to LHR on Sunday (5 Nov 23). I was rebooked (initially offered downgrade from J to Y on AA on a 3 hour later flight, but this was changed to flying on VS 2hr 50 mins earlier in J upon request).
Sorry if a bit OTT, but were you denied access to a lounge too with J? Nuts! There is a DL lounge they should give you access to as VS J. Not good.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 11:41 am
  #2348  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,483
Just to add that this all relates to the unavailability recently of LEC and LED with LEL too and LEA being on heavy maint in MNL. This will finally result in CEDR ruling in your favour, with a 75% offer prior.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 1:44 pm
  #2349  
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
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Hey, sorry for my ignorance or if this isn't the place to ask - but I'm looking for some advice on compensation.

I had purchased a flight from BNA to LHR (BA222) for 13th September which was cancelled aboout 24 hours prior with no reason as to why the cancellation happened. I was offered an alternative non-direct flight on AA from BNA to DFW (AA1103) and then DFW to LHR (AA50) which would've arrived about 20 hours later than my inital flight. I didn't take suggested flight and instead took a direct flight offered to me by BA for 16th September and landing on 17th September.

I assume that this delay and cancellation with no reason offered makes me eligible for the compensation. I submitted a case of complaint on the 15th September and aside from the inital confirmation message that my case was recieved I've heard no word back. The chat bot on the British Airways' website just claims that my case is pending. Should I continue to be patient? Should I escalate the claim somehow? Would calling them help in anyway or writing a physical letter? Or am I not eligible for compensation at all?

I had also submitted a complaint as when I arrived on the 16th September flight I had recieved a physical and digital boarding pass with two different seat numbers, and the seats were taken for both of my boarding passes. This had happened despite me paying for a seat. Would complaining about this have slowed down the resolution of my case too?

Cheers!
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 1:47 pm
  #2350  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
Second leg of flight delayed

Hi all, does anyone have knowledge or experience of what compensation is due when the short haul leg of a long haul connecting flight is the one delayed?

The route was Bogota - Madrid - London. Booked through BA on one ticket but obviously the Bogota-Madrid leg was IB.

The long haul sector was fine but the delay was from Madrid to London. BA acknowledge compensation is due but are claiming that only short haul compensation is due. Does anyone know if this is correct?

The guidelines from the original EU regulation isn't particularly helpful but it does define a flight as an 'air transport operation' so could be argued either way!

Thanks in advance.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 1:54 pm
  #2351  
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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Originally Posted by Elora
I assume that this delay and cancellation with no reason offered makes me eligible for the compensation. I submitted a case of complaint on the 15th September and aside from the inital confirmation message that my case was recieved I've heard no word back. The chat bot on the British Airways' website just claims that my case is pending. Should I continue to be patient? Should I escalate the claim somehow? Would calling them help in anyway or writing a physical letter? Or am I not eligible for compensation at all?

I had also submitted a complaint as when I arrived on the 16th September flight I had recieved a physical and digital boarding pass with two different seat numbers, and the seats were taken for both of my boarding passes. This had happened despite me paying for a seat. Would complaining about this have slowed down the resolution of my case too?
What we have seen in recent months is that claims that are 1 or 2 sentences long - so "flight BA222 cancelled on 13 September, I claim compensation" will get resolved quickly. Anything longer can result in 3 or 4 months delay quite easily. The standard advice here, which you will see upthread too, is to go to CEDR at 8 weeks regardless, if only to get the clock ticking on that process. CEDR isn't quick either, but has a bit more visibility to it. As you may have noticed in this thread, the cause of the cancellation was technical, they had too many 788 aircraft with technical problems and so BNA was cancelled. So that makes it an easy case for BA, and had you put in a one sentence claim it would probably have been dealt with by now. But I am confident that eventually your claim will be paid up.
FAQ : Reason for flight delay or cancellation - 2023 edition

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corporate-wage-slave is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2023, 1:58 pm
  #2352  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by Elora
Hey, sorry for my ignorance or if this isn't the place to ask - but I'm looking for some advice on compensation.

I had purchased a flight from BNA to LHR (BA222) for 13th September which was cancelled aboout 24 hours prior with no reason as to why the cancellation happened. I was offered an alternative non-direct flight on AA from BNA to DFW (AA1103) and then DFW to LHR (AA50) which would've arrived about 20 hours later than my inital flight. I didn't take suggested flight and instead took a direct flight offered to me by BA for 16th September and landing on 17th September.

I assume that this delay and cancellation with no reason offered makes me eligible for the compensation. I submitted a case of complaint on the 15th September and aside from the inital confirmation message that my case was recieved I've heard no word back. The chat bot on the British Airways' website just claims that my case is pending. Should I continue to be patient? Should I escalate the claim somehow? Would calling them help in anyway or writing a physical letter? Or am I not eligible for compensation at all?

I had also submitted a complaint as when I arrived on the 16th September flight I had recieved a physical and digital boarding pass with two different seat numbers, and the seats were taken for both of my boarding passes. This had happened despite me paying for a seat. Would complaining about this have slowed down the resolution of my case too?

Cheers!
Sadly you may have a while yet before BA get round to your case. Claims with anything more than a couple of sentences seem to be taking many months, with a long backlog that shows no signs of abating.

Take it to CEDR once 8 weeks pass from submitting your claim - whilst this won't necessarily speed things up, it does at least mean that BA have to work to an externally controlled timetable and can't take forever and a day to get back to you.

Originally Posted by ReturnTheRing
Hi all, does anyone have knowledge or experience of what compensation is due when the short haul leg of a long haul connecting flight is the one delayed?

The route was Bogota - Madrid - London. Booked through BA on one ticket but obviously the Bogota-Madrid leg was IB.

The long haul sector was fine but the delay was from Madrid to London. BA acknowledge compensation is due but are claiming that only short haul compensation is due. Does anyone know if this is correct?

The guidelines from the original EU regulation isn't particularly helpful but it does define a flight as an 'air transport operation' so could be argued either way!

Thanks in advance.
BA are wrong - it's the overall distance from your contracted origin to your contracted destination that matters. Intermediate changes aren't considered when determining the band of compensation applicable. CJEU judgment has consistently set out that connecting flights are to be deemed as equivalent to a single flight for compensation purposes.

I'd get back to BA with a simple and brief answer asking them to check the compensation as your booking was from BOG, and it's well over 3500km from there to London. Ask them to confirm whether this is their final answer if they are refusing compensation.

If they continue to refuse compensation, will then allow you to go straight to CEDR without having to wait 8 weeks.
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 1:58 pm
  #2353  
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Originally Posted by ReturnTheRing
The long haul sector was fine but the delay was from Madrid to London. BA acknowledge compensation is due but are claiming that only short haul compensation is due. Does anyone know if this is correct?
No, that's not correct, it is both services together, so the longhaul compensation is due, but equally the longhaul timeframes (3 and 4 hours) would apply rather than the shorthaul 3 hour).
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 2:05 pm
  #2354  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 6
Thanks flarmip and CWS!
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Old Nov 8, 2023, 2:09 pm
  #2355  
 
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: England
Posts: 2
Thank you both for the quick replies, it's very appreciated! I'll be sure to contact CEDR once the eight weeks have passed. Wish I had known that I needed to keep things brief, will definitely keep in mind for future complaints.
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