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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Nov 6, 2023, 1:55 pm
  #2326  
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
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How bizarre to see this new tactic of 75 percent offer.
Please all who have been offered this say no and go to MCOL.
BA only making offer because they know you have a case and it's purely a try on. They'll bottle and pay you full amount if you sue is my prediction.
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Old Nov 6, 2023, 2:05 pm
  #2327  
 
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Originally Posted by AviosTreasureHunter
How bizarre to see this new tactic of 75 percent offer.
Please all who have been offered this say no and go to MCOL.
BA only making offer because they know you have a case and it's purely a try on. They'll bottle and pay you full amount if you sue is my prediction.
So it seems that the 75% offer is an offer to settle the CEDR case immediately without adjudication. So by rejecting the offer, it isnt necessarily the final step of the CEDR process. The case will then be reviewed by a CEDR adjudicator who may award the full amount sought. MCOL may still be the final destination for some of these claims, but seems this is a new tactic to close out some of these cases more quickly.
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Old Nov 6, 2023, 3:01 pm
  #2328  
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Originally Posted by GM1985
MCOL may still be the final destination for some of these claims, but seems this is a new tactic to close out some of these cases more quickly.
This sort of haggling over EC261 is clearly ruled out as a tactic by EC261 itself (Article 15). I guess there could be some wriggle room in niche cases, for example where the Right to Care costs are high and open to challenge (e.g. hotel more expensive than alternative options, use of taxis, rebooking with other airlines), But in theory Article 15 allows someone to accept the 75% offer and then pursue via MCOL or even CEDR, for the remainder of the sum due.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 3:16 am
  #2329  
 
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I have also received a 75% CEDR settlement offer.

I cant quote my original post as its in the 2022 locked thread - only just gotten round to filing with CEDR in October. See below for info.

Claimed for 700, offered 525.

Do you think by them offering that I would be likely to win?

ATH-LHR flight delayed by total of 200 minutes in mid-September. Claim submitted for delay compensation and now received a response to say only 161 of those minutes were technical reasons (over the tannoy they mentioned a fault with the plane requiring engineers and started handing out food vouchers) with the remainder due to ATC.

thanks
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 3:48 am
  #2330  
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Originally Posted by Mm06hs
Claimed for 700, offered 525.

Do you think by them offering that I would be likely to win?
No, my suspicion is they are indulging in a Gordian Knot approach here, given the large number of cases and insufficient resources to process the claims. This is probably peaking at this point, given the various summer problems, BA's operations have been smoother and more punctual in recent weeks but the CEDR timeframe is that we are probably seeing a surge of cases from June, July and August at the moment. So I don't think you can read anything into the 75% offer in terms of likelihood of success.

Now your case is a bit more in the grey zone compared to some of the other cases. Those other cases include straightforward TECY events, whereas yours is TECHY but BA are suggesting that covers only 161 of the required 180 minutes, in the context of 200 minutes in all. Now this is an entirely appropriate line of argument, whereas it's also correct for you to say that the ATC delays would not have happened if they had their aircraft ship-shape in the first place. In the past CEDR has tended to side with passengers on the "all reasonable measures" principle. The devil will be in the detail of the internal BA notes submitted to CEDR. Personally, unless I had access to those notes or other information, I would be tempted by the offer given that it's not a totally robust case.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 4:18 am
  #2331  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
No, my suspicion is they are indulging in a Gordian Knot approach here, given the large number of cases and insufficient resources to process the claims. This is probably peaking at this point, given the various summer problems, BA's operations have been smoother and more punctual in recent weeks but the CEDR timeframe is that we are probably seeing a surge of cases from June, July and August at the moment. So I don't think you can read anything into the 75% offer in terms of likelihood of success.

Now your case is a bit more in the grey zone compared to some of the other cases. Those other cases include straightforward TECY events, whereas yours is TECHY but BA are suggesting that covers only 161 of the required 180 minutes, in the context of 200 minutes in all. Now this is an entirely appropriate line of argument, whereas it's also correct for you to say that the ATC delays would not have happened if they had their aircraft ship-shape in the first place. In the past CEDR has tended to side with passengers on the "all reasonable measures" principle. The devil will be in the detail of the internal BA notes submitted to CEDR. Personally, unless I had access to those notes or other information, I would be tempted by the offer given that it's not a totally robust case.

Thanks - as ever really appreciate the advice.

I had thought it was a somewhat grey argument to make and after pretty much forgetting about it for a year 525 isnt such a bad outcome!
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 4:31 am
  #2332  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
This sort of haggling over EC261 is clearly ruled out as a tactic by EC261 itself (Article 15). I guess there could be some wriggle room in niche cases, for example where the Right to Care costs are high and open to challenge (e.g. hotel more expensive than alternative options, use of taxis, rebooking with other airlines), But in theory Article 15 allows someone to accept the 75% offer and then pursue via MCOL or even CEDR, for the remainder of the sum due.
That's very interesting, because the letter from CEDR itself suggests that acceptance of the 75% offer at this stage is a full and final one. Seems rather cheeky of them!

Originally Posted by CEDR
In order to bring this matter to an amicable conclusion and save both parties further inconvenience, British Airways has asked us to advise you that on this occasion it will make you an offer of settlement. If this settlement offer is accepted, please note that it is in full and final settlement of all issues raised in your application. Alternatively, if you choose to reject the settlement offer, British Airways can continue to defend the claim. Please note that you will not be able to accept this settlement offer at a later stage and, if the matter is assigned to an adjudicator, the adjudicator may reject your claim, or award you more or less than what the airline has offered. Also, please be advised that if you have already received any settlement from the airline relating to the claim, this will be deducted from the amount offered so as to not result in a duplicate payment. Please provide your full bank details (in the box which appears when you click on ACCEPT OFFER) so the airline can make a payment within 20 working days of your acceptance. If incorrect payment details are provided, this may result in a delay in the airline actioning the settlement offer.

Please note that you are now required to either accept or reject the settlement offer proposed by the airline/airport. If this settlement offer is accepted, you cannot attach any conditions and you acknowledge that it is in full and final settlement of all issues raised in your application. Alternatively, if you choose to reject the settlement offer, it will be for the airline/airport to either offer a new settlement or defend the claim. Please note that you will not be able to accept this settlement offer at a later stage and, if the matter is assigned to an adjudicator, the adjudicator may award you more or less than what the airline/airport has previously offered.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 5:03 am
  #2333  
 
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Just had notice of refusal of compensation for flights cancelled on 29th Aug 2023 and auto-rebooked (with a downgrade to ET) to the 30th. Expenses are to be paid in full. Instead of compensation, BA offered a 300 eVoucher.

Summary:

6 pax, booked CE, LHR -> ABZ on 29th Aug 2023, BA 1316. Flight cancelled.
Auto-rebooked to BA 1318 later the same day. Flight cancelled, auto-rebooked to BA 1314 on the 30th with ET downgrade.

BA reason for compensation refusal: Your claim's been refused because BA 1316 on 29 August was cancelled because of flight crew out of position following previous days mass disruption caused by Air Traffic Control tower failure.

Identical reason for the later BA 1318.

BA offered 300 eVoucher as "this experience didn't meet their usual standards".

Question: Should this be in scope of EC261 for compensation given the stated reason for cancellation?
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 5:14 am
  #2334  
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Originally Posted by ExAbz
BA offered 300 eVoucher as "this experience didn't meet their usual standards".

Question: Should this be in scope of EC261 for compensation given the stated reason for cancellation?
The query here is "all reasonable measures". The previous day's ATC collapse probably does count as "extraordinary circumstances", but by the next day you are on a balance argument, The disruption was severe, but did BA really do all it could to avoid cancelling the flight? It was also an evening departure. Now my take on this is that when it's a balance issue - on balance could BA do more? On balance does BA have enough staff to cope with irrops? - then EC261 has a clear bias stated within it, a bias to the passenger not the airline. So I suspect a CEDR submission may work out, even if it's not totally guaranteed.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 5:26 am
  #2335  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
The query here is "all reasonable measures". The previous day's ATC collapse probably does count as "extraordinary circumstances", but by the next day you are on a balance argument, The disruption was severe, but did BA really do all it could to avoid cancelling the flight? It was also an evening departure. Now my take on this is that when it's a balance issue - on balance could BA do more? On balance does BA have enough staff to cope with irrops? - then EC261 has a clear bias stated within it, a bias to the passenger not the airline. So I suspect a CEDR submission may work out, even if it's not totally guaranteed.
Thanks for the quick response c-w-s.

Given that the connecting flight (DBV -> LHR, BA 2833, 29th Aug) did run on-time, my view is that BA consciously chose to cancel the ABZ flights and thus are liable for compensation.

I shall confirm with BA that this is their final response and then head to CEDR.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 6:10 am
  #2336  
 
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Originally Posted by Jpm81
Is invoking trip in vain and BA not giving a full refund something worth submitting to CEDR?

Had a trip in vain in December last year, BA paid the EC261 as it was an operational issue but between them and Amex GBT, the full cost of the original ticket hasn't been refunded.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Yes, if the trip no longer serves any purpose and you asked to be returned to the start point, that's a specific EC261 protection and in scope for CEDR or MCOL.
Originally Posted by Jpm81
Thank you - I will raise it with CEDR.
Update - full amount now paid to me after submitting case to CEDR.

Thanks as always for the advice on here.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 7:19 am
  #2337  
 
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I have declined my 75% offer (525 for a 700 claim) from yesterday, which is the first thing I've heard about my case since originally submitting on 4th July. I've not heard anything directly from BA at all, only via CEDR.

CEDR have now said that BA have until 18th December to reply to my rejection, so it seems this will further drag the case out, unless BA get round to dealing with it directly before that.
​​​
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 7:24 am
  #2338  
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Originally Posted by musehead
CEDR have now said that BA have until 18th December to reply to my rejection, so it seems this will further drag the case out, unless BA get round to dealing with it directly before that.
​​​
I think we are seeing the terms of the deal hammered out between equally overloaded BA and CEDR. Offer everyone (?) 75%, then you (BA) have another six weeks to deal with any rejections. It's unprecedented to hear of six CEDR settlement offer cases within 24 hours. Before the pandemic, six weeks was the full CEDR process timing.
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 7:53 am
  #2339  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I think we are seeing the terms of the deal hammered out between equally overloaded BA and CEDR. Offer everyone (?) 75%, then you (BA) have another six weeks to deal with any rejections. It's unprecedented to hear of six CEDR settlement offer cases within 24 hours. Before the pandemic, six weeks was the full CEDR process timing.
It does make you wonder what, if any, vetting of claims BA/CEDR are doing before making this offer. For clear-cut, slam-dunk cases where compensation/expenses are due, 75% is a poor offer and the smart thing to do is to push them to adjudication for the full amount. But for grey-area (and even arm-chancing claims where extraordinary circumstances are at play), might some people stand to cash-in on claims BA could have successfully rejected?
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Old Nov 7, 2023, 8:06 am
  #2340  
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Originally Posted by GM1985
It does make you wonder what, if any, vetting of claims BA/CEDR are doing before making this offer. For clear-cut, slam-dunk cases where compensation/expenses are due, 75% is a poor offer and the smart thing to do is to push them to adjudication for the full amount. But for grey-area (and even arm-chancing claims where extraordinary circumstances are at play), might some people stand to cash-in on claims BA could have successfully rejected?
If we get six cases raised here in 24 hours I think we can assume that some sort of blanket approach is happening, perhaps as a once-off clear the decks arrangement. Even if you had a slam-dunk case, if it's for 250 then 75% of that may be OK for a fast payment, given that some people use external agencies to process their claims with a higher rake off. There's at least one "grey area" case upthread.
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