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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Jan 1, 2023, 11:31 am
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The 2023 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261 / UK261

Old Oct 26, 2023, 8:06 am
  #2206  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Yes, but I'm not sure you're in the definition, which is arrival time when the doors of the aircraft are open and passengers are able to leave. There is no reference to baggage in EC261 and so you have to imagine an HBO traveller here. That said, I'd imagine BA will do at least some right to care here, though there is context missing here (in terms of onwards travel) so I can't really say much about that. Taxi fares after midnight are usually paid, Bath Road hotels are usualy better for T2, T2 to T4 is tricky combination after midnight.
Appreciate the time to do the forensics on this. I was hoping to take the Elizabeth Line to Canary to meet a friend who has been very sick.
By the time I raced to the E Line and then the tube both were shuttered with staff saying no more trains (it was a Sunday night - not sure if they have different operating times then).
BA were uncertain if they could unload after an hour so started giving out claim forms saying get to your destination and recover the costs.
mad I say, two staff from BA had to handle a full 320 load of pax as many were connecting some how (lots to the Caribbean, I noticed). By the time I got to the front the bags were being delivered. I got to my hotel at T4 at 01.30.
Ill see if they can sub me the hotac and (black cab) taxi.
Thanks again
CHCHF
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 9:33 am
  #2207  
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by tylphe
Original flight: 2023 May 27 - BA1469 INV-LHR, cancelled on short (~8 hours) notice presumably due to not having crew since the preceding LHR->INV flight was cancelled; knock on effect from a major IT failure I think. This resulted in me missing my connecting BA287 LHR-SFO flight. BA booked me on the same set of flights on the following day.
Claim Update:
  • May 27: My flight INV->LHR->SFO was cancelled on, rebooked on the same flight the next day.
  • May 29: I submitted my BA claim for UK261 compensation since my flight was over 3500km and cancelled with less than 24 hours notice.
  • Included in the claim was a request for compensation of the hotel (since I had to stay in INV overnight), transportation to the hotel and back to airport, two meals, and a refund for the seat reservations that I made on the cancelled flights. Total for those was ~250 GBP.
  • I received boilerplate email responses from BA about my claim on Jun 10, Jun 16, and Jun 30. After that, no reply for months.
  • Oct 17: I filed a CEDR claim for everything.
  • Oct 24: BA finally responded to my claim, saying:
An update from British Airways

Were sorry it was necessary to cancel your flight from Inverness on 27 May and understand why you needed to get in contact about this. We take all reasonable measures to avoid cancelling a flight and well always consider if there are any alternative solutions available before we make a decision. We'd also like to thank you for your patience while we got back to you about this.

Ive checked the details of your journey and Im pleased to advise youre entitled to compensation for the cancellation of your flight, BA1469, on 27 May.

The distance of your disrupted journey was over 3,500km and this has been calculated in accordance with UK law. This means youre entitled to 520.00 in compensation.

The best way to settle your claim is by bank transfer and it would be helpful if you could send me the following information:
Its great that I got a response and Im glad Im entitled to UK261 compensation Im frustrated theres no mention of the compensation for the costs associated with needing to stay another night and for the lost seat reservations. I find it ridiculous that its this difficult to get a refund for seat reservations on a cancelled flight. When BA rebooked me, they did not reserve a seat for me I had to pay for that too so the refund for the seat reservations of the cancelled flight seems like a no-brainer to me.

So heres my question I would like to again request compensation for these things; do I respond to BA or to CEDR or to both? Will this jeopardize my claim? Do I file a new claim?

This process has been maddening.
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 12:04 pm
  #2208  
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Originally Posted by tylphe
So heres my question I would like to again request compensation for these things; do I respond to BA or to CEDR or to both? Will this jeopardize my claim? Do I file a new claim?

This process has been maddening.
You can tell CEDR that your claim has not been fully met, and that the unresolved issues need to continue in the CEDR track. However check that BA doesn't just pay to you the other components and not tell you, that's quite a common outcome.
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 12:06 pm
  #2209  
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Originally Posted by CHCflyer
Appreciate the time to do the forensics on this. I was hoping to take the Elizabeth Line to Canary to meet a friend who has been very sick.
I think this is covered in the Signposts thread, but if it happens again, just take a taxi to Canary Wharf and get the luggage sent over the next day. The hotel issue - well BA may pay that, but they are not obliged to do so.
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 12:12 pm
  #2210  
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 6
Does this imply that I should accept the partial claim from BA (give them my bank info) and then continue with CEDR? I was under the assumption that as soon as one accepts any kind of compensation/settlement, the whole claim is considered resolved.

Thank you for your help!
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 12:27 pm
  #2211  
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Originally Posted by tylphe
Does this imply that I should accept the partial claim from BA (give them my bank info) and then continue with CEDR? I was under the assumption that as soon as one accepts any kind of compensation/settlement, the whole claim is considered resolved.
I would interpret it as being resolving the compensation component. By law it's not possible to throw away your Right to Care protections, so I'm not sure where that assumption would fit here.
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 2:28 pm
  #2212  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 50
I had a claim denied due to:

Your claim's been refused because BA2036 on 26 September 2023 was delayed because of rotational delays from previous sectors on this aircraft.

Is this a valid reason? I assume this is under their control.

Thanks.
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Old Oct 26, 2023, 3:23 pm
  #2213  
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Originally Posted by lemonpie
I had a claim denied due to:

Your claim's been refused because BA2036 on 26 September 2023 was delayed because of rotational delays from previous sectors on this aircraft.
BA2036 is MCO-LGW. If there was a delay on LGW-MCO caused, for example, by weather, then MCO to LGW is allowed to be impacted. But if the aircraft was late leaving LGW due to a flight beforehand, then that's not extraordinary circumstances, it's a knock-on.
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 1:30 am
  #2214  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 50
The plane was 1.5 hours late leaving LGW. Not sure of the reason for that. We boarded at the revised flight time (1.5 hours late) then sat for 2 hours as the airport was closed whilst a storm passed through. We landed at LGW just over 3 hours late. I was expecting the claim to be denied due to weather although you could argue that if the incoming flight had been on time we would have avoided the storm.

Is it worth pursuing? Thanks.
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 1:46 am
  #2215  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,462
Originally Posted by lemonpie
The plane was 1.5 hours late leaving LGW. Not sure of the reason for that. We boarded at the revised flight time (1.5 hours late) then sat for 2 hours as the airport was closed whilst a storm passed through. We landed at LGW just over 3 hours late. I was expecting the claim to be denied due to weather although you could argue that if the incoming flight had been on time we would have avoided the storm.

Is it worth pursuing? Thanks.
In short, yes it is.
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 2:28 am
  #2216  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,462
BA 2846 23rd October 2023

Originally Posted by Haax007
Dear FT-ers, I was on LGW - FAO yesterday, which arrived more than 3 hours late due to a technical issue with the aircraft that was supposed to operate the flight. The flight left over 3 hours late after BA had found another aircraft. This was all handled reasonably well with the pilot explaining the issue at the gate and generally keeping passengers updated. Boarding of the aircraft took a long time and the pilot came on to say two passengers were missing and he was waiting for them (I did not fully understand his reasoning, something to do with it being BA's fault the flight was late and these passengers may not have been aware of the new boarding time). He also said finding their bags would take time. I don't think the passengers ever arrived and I saw two suitcases being taken away by ground staff.

This seemed a pretty clear case to me of BA being on the hook for delay compensation, but they responded almost immediately to say the flight ".. was delayed because of technical issues with the aircraft. However, because some of the delay was also due to the late arrival of the aircraft from the previous sector, we are not liable for this claim".

Do people think compensation is due in this case? The late arrival of the aircraft from the previous sector seems irrelevant to me. What would be the best way to respond? Many thanks for your collective wisdom!

By the way, BA did throw in 10,000 avios.

Thanks.
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
This will be because someone somewhere put TECN on the dispatch system and therefore BA came up with this logic that does not fit in with EC261. That late arriving previous sector, if it was into LGW, is a knock-on and thus not extraordinary at all. If you were past 8 weeks go to CEDR, but as you are under 8 weeks seek confirmation that this is their final answer.

Some background, BA 2846 LGW-FAO was originally due to be operated by G-GATJ. That aircraft started its day operating to NCE and back as BA2622/3. It went Tech/AOG on arrival back at LGW due to insulation between panels coming loose and the FAO rotation BA 2846 and BA 2847 were subsequently allocated G-EUXE in lieu of G-GATJ.

G-EUXE started its day on a heavily delayed AMS rotation due to fog (BA 2824/5). Tis is why BA are deliberately obfuscating your claim despite the TECY codes listed all over the place in relation to the FAO rotation.

Please do proceed to CEDR and DM if you require anything further.

Whilst anecdotal evidence posted here would suggest that BA have more or less been going for the path of least resistance and being compliant with the regulation over the summer months, silly season is now well and truly back.
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 7:14 am
  #2217  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
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Just for anyone interested, as i was bumping my gums last week, my oldest claim that i raised at start of July for a cancellation on 24th June was approved yesterday.

Was purely compensation, no other costs. Almost 4 months.
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 7:47 am
  #2218  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: BA Silver, HHilton Gold, *wood Gold and BA Amex Prem Plus
Posts: 139
Hello

Sorry, a long one.

Booking

I booked four tickets on a BA code share flight from Spain to London last month. BA sold the tickets, but Vueling was the carrier.

I received confirmation from BA that I had a reservation and my credit card authorised the payment. The BA confirmation screen which is headed CONFIRMATION says Youre on your way to London. Weve sent a confirmation email to [your email address], where youll be notified about check-in. We look forward to flying with you. This then lists my family as the 4 passengers.

The reservation was made the same day as the flight, due to a sudden family issue.

When I arrived at the airport, Vueling said no tickets had been booked. It transpires that BA made a mistake when making the reservation. BA has now written to me to say that "I can see from your booking you made your reservation at 12:57 GMT on 02 September. As this was a codeshare flight with Vueling, we can only sell tickets if their system shows as having inventory. Unfortunately, despite allowing us to book 4 seats for you, there wasn't that number of seats available on the aircraft, which is why we couldn't issue your tickets."

We eventually got a flight to London two days later - the earliest available flight.

Claim

I claimed Denied Boarding from BA, but they have rejected the claim as they aren't the operating air carrier.

So, I have now sent a claim to Vueling, who no doubt will refuse it on the basis that BA did not issue us with tickets.

Question

Do I have a reservation for the purposes of 261/2004?

The Denied Boarding section of 261/2004 refers to passengers surrendering their "reservations" - willingly or otherwise. It does not refer to the surrender of tickets.

A reservation is defined as a ticket, or other proof, which indicates that the reservation has been accepted and registered by the air carrier [Vueling in my case] or tour operator [BA in my case]. I think the other proof bit is relevant here, as I have the confirmation screen from BA and the payment proof. Does anyone know whether that is sufficient for a reservation for the purposes of 261/2400? Does it help that BA has confirmed in writing that I "made a reservation"?

Many thanks

M
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 8:18 am
  #2219  
 
Join Date: May 2019
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Originally Posted by mattjam
Hello

Sorry, a long one.

Booking

I booked four tickets on a BA code share flight from Spain to London last month. BA sold the tickets, but Vueling was the carrier.

I received confirmation from BA that I had a reservation and my credit card authorised the payment. The BA confirmation screen which is headed CONFIRMATION says Youre on your way to London. Weve sent a confirmation email to [your email address], where youll be notified about check-in. We look forward to flying with you. This then lists my family as the 4 passengers.

The reservation was made the same day as the flight, due to a sudden family issue.

When I arrived at the airport, Vueling said no tickets had been booked. It transpires that BA made a mistake when making the reservation. BA has now written to me to say that "I can see from your booking you made your reservation at 12:57 GMT on 02 September. As this was a codeshare flight with Vueling, we can only sell tickets if their system shows as having inventory. Unfortunately, despite allowing us to book 4 seats for you, there wasn't that number of seats available on the aircraft, which is why we couldn't issue your tickets."

We eventually got a flight to London two days later - the earliest available flight.

Claim

I claimed Denied Boarding from BA, but they have rejected the claim as they aren't the operating air carrier.

So, I have now sent a claim to Vueling, who no doubt will refuse it on the basis that BA did not issue us with tickets.

Question

Do I have a reservation for the purposes of 261/2004?

The Denied Boarding section of 261/2004 refers to passengers surrendering their "reservations" - willingly or otherwise. It does not refer to the surrender of tickets.

A reservation is defined as a ticket, or other proof, which indicates that the reservation has been accepted and registered by the air carrier [Vueling in my case] or tour operator [BA in my case]. I think the other proof bit is relevant here, as I have the confirmation screen from BA and the payment proof. Does anyone know whether that is sufficient for a reservation for the purposes of 261/2400? Does it help that BA has confirmed in writing that I "made a reservation"?

Many thanks

M
Out of interest - did you receive an email confirmation and did this include a 125-xxx number at the bottom? Whilst obviously none of this is your fault, if you don't receive a confirmation email and/or don't receive a ticket number (there are also other ways of checking, e.g. the Finnair e-ticket tool), this is a surefire way of knowing that something may be up. Definitely worthwhile checking in future - I always use the Finnair e-ticket tool to double check that my booking has an associated ticket number, or for bookings where this isn't possible, I check that I receive a confirmation email with a ticket number (unless it's a LCC which is ticketless).

Either way, with payment having been taken, and you having been presented with a confirmation screen, I would have said this plainly constitutes "other proof" within the meaning of EU/UK261. Of course Vueling may seek to argue otherwise, or that they were not the 'operating carrier', but such arguments were given short shrift by the CJEU in the case of Azurair (C-140/20). The Court's press summary of the judgment refers:
A passenger who has booked a flight has a ‘confirmed reservation’ (which is a necessary condition for entitlement to benefit from the rights laid down in the Regulation) not only where he or she is in possession of a ticket, but also where the tour operator submits to that passenger, with whom it has a contract, other proof by which he or she is assured transport on a particular flight, individualised by points of departure and destination, times of departure and arrival, and the flight number. It is irrelevant in this respect whether the tour operator has received confirmation from the air carrier concerned as to the times of departure and arrival of that flight. Passengers cannot be required to obtain information about the relationship between the tour operator and the air carrier.

▪ In addition, an air carrier may be classified as an ‘operating air carrier’ (against which the rights laid down in the Regulation are mainly directed) in respect of a passenger if that passenger has concluded a contract with a tour operator for a particular flight operated by that air carrier without that air carrier having confirmed the times of the flight or without that tour operator having made a reservation for that passenger with that air carrier. Where an operating air carrier is required to pay compensation to passengers pursuant to the Regulation due to the conduct of the tour operator, that carrier has the possibility to seek compensation from the tour operator for any damage incurred.
It may help if you're able to produce proof of having seen this screen (e.g. a screenshot of your browser history containing a BA confirmation page - in my history this screen is under British Airways - Confirmation, with an intermediate page entitled British Airways - Secure Payment Validation). That being said, the payment and/or any PNR you were given is pretty conclusive proof in its own right.

Unfortunately, Vueling doesn't subscribe to any Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme. Therefore, if - as may be expected - they wrongly deny your claim, you'll have to escalate the matter through the Spanish aviation authority (AESA) or else through the British or Spanish courts (you can choose where to sue, as you are a consumer).

Separately to this, you could claim back any additional expenses you incurred (e.g. right to care, rebooking) from BA either directly or via a section 75 claim against your credit card lender (provided you used one and each person's ticket cost at least 100). This would be under the ambit of breach of contract - you only incurred these costs because of their failure to provide the contracted service.
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Old Oct 27, 2023, 8:56 am
  #2220  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,155
Help! Last minute cancellation by BA

I'm due to fly in 3 hours on BA 2622 LGW-NCE but just this minute received a text from BA that it is cancelled.

They have rebooked us on a 625am departure tomorrow which is no good as a) I don't want to stay overnight at the airport and b) we were only going for the weekend.

Looking at EF there is no availability on other flights out tonight. We are resigned to not going.

I assume I am due UK261 compensation here, but should I refuse the rebooking in order to activate that or do nothing. If I cancel am I still entited to the compensation?

Also, I have a non-refundable hotel - does BA owe me that back? And I had bought train tickets to LGW which are now useless too.

Great start to the weekend......

Thanks.
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