carrotjuice

Booked SIN-LHR (open jaw) OSL-LHR-SIN some months back with GUF to CW. Worked out to 102,750 Avios + £625 TFS off peak.

Called to inquire if I should cancel and rebook for same dates. Was quoted 121,750 Avios + £601 TFS. How can the extra 19,000 Avios required be worth only £24 ?!

Interestingly, I was told:
- This is a new development and even the GGL agents are only “getting their feet wet”.
- Unlike BA.com, no other permutations were offered by the call centre, as they can only “see the highest Avios price” in the system. Whereas when I simulated the same itinerary on BA.com, I’m presented with 6 different permutations.
- The Avios quoted on BA.com was the same as GGL (121,750) was but TFS was different (BA.com quoted £553.85, whereas GGL says it’s £300 for SIN-LHR + £1 for OSL-LHR + £300 for LHR-SIN = total £601)

rather_be_on_a_griffin

It reads like we are participating in an early beta test. Hopefully some of the issues this forum has quickly found can be resolved to at least make the program more rational.

I can only suppose the goal is to better support credit cards. For me the benchmark price of 160k + $700 for NYLON is ok-ish. With a 241 160k +$1400 is tempting for a couple provided BA keeps up relatively good availability. Further, I think revenue based earning would help take out the impact from increased avios for many frequent fliers. Overall if that was one of the target markets it at least moves Avios/BAEC from joke category to worth considering.

Let's hope the bugs can be worked out.

TTmex

Let's be thankful BA hasn't gone to dynamic pricing like many other airlines have. I've found on Skyteam airlines that they often tell you 80k plus tax for a business flight, only to find it's 160k on the day you need it. As I mentioned upthread, this is not a change in favour of frequent flyers, it's a change in favour of the biggest spenders. BA is certainly not the only airline that does this and more will follow. Airlines need to fit today's economy and with technological advances it's possible to integrate people's spending across all platforms, cards etc and track that easily, giving companies the opportunity to really know who spends on the things that make companies the most money. I was even hearing about a US card that gave you extra points when spending through your smartwatch or something to that extent. The fact that Iberia has moved to spend-based avios earning is another sign that the new model moving forward is bagging the benefits by spending with partners, not by sitting on a plane for excessive hours. BAEC would be better off branded as BASR" British Airways Spending Rewards".

I'm going to be bold here and say give it max 3 years and BA will have found a way to justify a minimum spend for status akin to EQD in the US, and the marketing team will tell us it's because that's "what we (as customers) wanted"

hfly

Something like half of all BA Gold members do NOT reside in the UK or US, so from the get go this is a negative for them. If you are UK or US based, and if you get 2 for 1 vouchers this is a plus. What I cannot understand is why BA would so obviously hobble itself towards half its top base?! As for the bloggers, in BA's case, you get what you pay for.

HadesNL

its just a devaluation - plain & simple -
it must be designed to court Avios been printed out via the credit card schemes.

As....
Some bloggers are screaming advertising:

British Airways Massively Reduces Award Surcharges

&

British Airways Massively Reduces Avios Surcharges, Up To $1200 Lower!

While only HfP has the decency to mention that for normal folks without bells & whistles: the total shock words as:

Stuffed #1: How BA sharply devalued Avios for members outside the UK and US

Caerbannog

I have been watching availability to HND next November/December. There was plenty but it now seems to have disappeared in all classes, even with a Premium Plus voucher. I hope this is temporary while they sort things out. I assume that Avios flights will reappear on less favourable terms, not least because of the extended flight times (Russia rerouting) and high cash fares.

stifle

One of several steps BA has taken of late to increase the exclusivity of First. I suppose in a future world of 8 F seats on the plane, they won't have a major want/need to give much to Avios users.

orbitmic

Damn. Many of us would have shared our brains with them on this for free as it's in our interest to do it for free (and many long time regulars here would have done so much better than me).

I was part of one such small group for another major European airline a few years ago, we never got paid, but were part of the people they talked to in a context when they implemented some of their best changes in recent years from a switch to single fully flat seats to long haul catering improvement and a move from one of the worst to one of the best F products in the world.

At the time, I don't believe anyone believed that airline would really listen to us, and we were all flabbergasted that they meant things seriously. With BA, sometimes, it seems like the other way round so far, they keep asking for opinions from everyone and it just seems that whilst some people are listening, they are not really allowed to act upon it...

hfly

The whole blog thing is disingenuous at best.........."I value my cash more than I do Avios and they are so easy to earn"?? Hmmm, leaving out the one offs, such as a credit card sign off bonus, how excatly is it so easy to earn 160k+ avios without flying? I mean yes, you could earn through spend, but you are going to need to spend northwards of $50k per year on BA flights to earn such mileage, or as much as $160k a year solely on that card to earn such mileage. Doable by many, perhaps even the blogger, but someone who has that sort of volume would rarely bleat on as much about valuing the extra $400 or whatever in their pocket vs. miles? How many subscriptions to the Economist do you want to buy? I mean seriously, there are "so many ways" to earn Avios, but other than spending and earning 150k GBP and earning Nectar points, and the one offs there are no ways better to earn such points other than flying, and doing so in Premium Cabins........and those who do, in my experience do often value their Avios more than cash........especially the half of BAEC Golds whose redemption rates just essentially doubled due to these changes.

Seriously, BA redemption rates ($$) have been this high because BA engineered them to be this way. There are plenty of airlines shose rates are far cheaper. YQ is almost wholly fabricated by BA, and in fact most of it was promised to go away back in 2009 or so..............it never did. APD is a distraction, as I am seeing posted in certain places "but those starting in the EU don't pay APD". While that is correct if they are only connecting in the UK (definition being less than 24 hours in the UK - Gov't definition not BA's) they did not pay it yesterday., and they are not paying it tomorrow. Yet the amount such passengers have to pay is the same yesterday as it is tomorrow WHILE THEIR POINTS REQUIREMENT is as much as TWICE AS MUCH.

CarefreeBA

The amount of points needed for premium flights are ridiculous. That being said, most of my mileage is generated from credit card spending/bonuses and I've saved up a fair bit across the years. However, the recent charge in points required/YQ/RFS has just made me want to not fly BA long haul using avios. The only long haul redemption I've ever made with BA was using an old Lloyds voucher HKG-LHR for 2 when a free upgrade to J for 78k (for 2).

My MR points are just going to Cathay Pacific now as I can get a J redemption from HK to LHR for 65k flying CX or an extra 5k with a European connection/direct with BA vs the 110k BA want from me now. Going to the states, I find booking premium economy cash and upgrading sometimes better value than using a 2 for 1 voucher. All in all, these changes just deter me more from using Avios for long haul redemptions, tying me down to T-355 and high YQ. I'm the type of person who would only fly J if the overall cash fare is less than that of that in Y, but that's my two cents.

People with 241 vouchers in the UK will benefit, slightly, but IAG's take on the whole stance is that big spenders are getting rewarded more (same at Iberia with Avios earnt per euro spent) and those who don't fly that often will save and save their miles and when they come to book something, they'll be hit by the big YQ unknowingly and all loyalty will be gone.

TTmex

That's the point..50k USD isn't much for many people. Many households will have income upwards of 250 to 500k combined between two earners. I channel all university and school fees through credit cards, buying flights, buying petrol, shopping, all that stuff. BA don't want to gift free tickets to people who don't spend. I'm not a big spender at all so will be harder for me, but that's life

Okrib

You can also earn significant points through using the BA e-store. Apple are offering 6 Avios per £ spent. So a Macbook would be 10,000 points. Sainsbury's is 15 Avios per £ etc.

I don't use this way enough, but it can add up pretty quickly.

hfly

Ttmex, you missed my point, it was aimed squarely at the "rah rah" bloggers who seemingly spend hundreds of thousands of Dollars (GBP, whatever), but then sound skint regarding fees that they need to pay. You wither are wealthy enough or you are not, if you are playing this game especially when you claim that Avios are so easy to earn...........I think everyone else got what I was saying?

BlueThroughCrimp

Good luck getting Sainsbury’s e-store points to post.

Okrib

I'm Avios rich but cash poor. I have a high number of Avios (circa 4,000,000) but these have been earned through our business. The business requires ongoing investment so we don't have easy access to cash but do to Avios.

There will likely be many people in a similar situation.