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Why does everyone put up with the rubbish service?

Why does everyone put up with the rubbish service?

Old Sep 18, 22, 11:29 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by Ghoulish View Post
Your claim of Middle Eastern airports all being government owned is completely wrong.

A greater percentage of European airports are government owned, and I might add, many utilize contractors for ground services staffed primarily by immigrant labor, including those illegally in the country.
These are the owners of the key airports in what is conventionally considered the major middle-east aviation markets:

DXB, DWC - Emirate of Dubai (through ownership of DAC)

AUH - Emirate of Abu Dhabi (through majority ownership of ADQ)

DOH - State of Qatar (owned directly through Qatar Civil Aviation Authority)

BAH - Kingdom of Bahrain (through Mumtalakat ownership of Bahrain Airport Company)

RUH, JED, DMM, MED - Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (through full ownership of GACA)

TLV - Govt. of Israel through ownership of IAA

Also not entirely clear to me where your comment about employment of immigrant labourers in European airports is headed - are you suggesting that an immigrant labourer’s experience in Europe (legal or illegal) is worse than that in the Middle East? Try spending a few days living in one of the ME labour camps from where these labourers are bussed in to their place of employment on a daily basis, and you might re-think your assessment.

In any case, you seem to have missed my point - it was not about whether or not the airport workers are immigrants or not, it was about the fact that in the event of shortages of local workers, it is far easier to procure a ready supply of cheap foreign labourers (with little to no labour protections) in the Middle East because of differing laws governing the import of workers. You may disagree, but that is my experience having lived, worked, and travelled extensively both in Europe and the Middle East.

Last edited by NWIFlyer; Sep 19, 22 at 12:19 am Reason: Remove personal attack
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Old Sep 19, 22, 12:54 am
  #47  
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The number of different airlines I've flown with over the past couple of years has diminished, so in my case I imagine acceptance of some of the service degradation is twofold: initially that I was grateful just to be able to fly anywhere given the restrictions through various UK lockdowns, and therefore the ancillary experience was entirely secondary, and then having got to used to that service level that it's simply become the norm, and my recollection of what it used to be has become ever more hazy.

Had I flown on JL or QR rather than BA, AA, AS, TP and LH during that period, maybe my perception might be different.
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Old Sep 19, 22, 4:00 am
  #48  
 
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Originally Posted by ISTFlyer View Post
There are limited slots and BA has most of them. When Heathrow wasn't this competitive as in the past, other airlines could have invested in slots.
Despite the very expensive slot prices at LHR, many airlines are still waiting in line to fly Heathrow or increase their service there.

If BA did cease operations for any reason in the future ( of course I know it's a very low possibility ), with the current market and demand, their gap would be filled instantly.
You're correct that airlines are queueing up to use Heathrow but the slots are initially allocated free of charge. It's only once they've been allocated that they have value as airlines are able to sell or lease them. If I owned an airline I'd be in the queue if only because of the millions of pounds the slots are potentially worth.

Aeroflot's LHR slots from this winter season onwards have recently been given away to other airlines including Avianca, Virgin and JetBlue.
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Old Sep 19, 22, 4:33 am
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by Schind View Post
You're correct that airlines are queueing up to use Heathrow but the slots are initially allocated free of charge. It's only once they've been allocated that they have value as airlines are able to sell or lease them.
I wonder what the legal position is on the ultimate ownership of these slots? Ultimately it must come down to the Government, if they ever wanted to introduce changes in this area (ie to "increase competition") I doubt they would be willing to buy out the airlines given the government gave the slots away in the first place.

I've read before that this secondary market in slot trading has morphed itself with little oversight or regulation, I wonder if this will ever change.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 9:41 am
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by chazman189 View Post
Iíve unfortunately flown BA 11 times in the last 15 days, and on every single occasion, the flight has been late by at least an hour (once it was 4 hours, which was nice for the compensation). To boot, itís also through the most pointless things like nobody around to attach an air bridge.
I flew to BCN on Friday, delay 3 hours. Flew back yesterday, delayed an hour. I must admit, recently all the flights I've been on have been delayed.

The worst thing for me with delays is the service after. The flight to BCN was 9.30pm at night and they served afternoon tea on it and an hour and 15 minutes after taking off. They were still finishing service and the captain announced they'd be preparing the descent. Madness. Never seen anything like that before. People at the back of CE were rushing to finish.

The lady sitting in row 1, who was clearly gold and a frequent flyer brazenly told the crew off for taking so long to serve afternoon tea, in front of everyone. She was right though. Nothing heated. It took them an hour and 15 minutes and she said all they'd been doing is yapping in front of the curtain. Was a shocking CE service.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 10:32 am
  #51  
 
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Originally Posted by chriswiles View Post
I flew to BCN on Friday, delay 3 hours. Flew back yesterday, delayed an hour. I must admit, recently all the flights I've been on have been delayed.

The worst thing for me with delays is the service after. The flight to BCN was 9.30pm at night and they served afternoon tea on it and an hour and 15 minutes after taking off. They were still finishing service and the captain announced they'd be preparing the descent. Madness. Never seen anything like that before. People at the back of CE were rushing to finish.

The lady sitting in row 1, who was clearly gold and a frequent flyer brazenly told the crew off for taking so long to serve afternoon tea, in front of everyone. She was right though. Nothing heated. It took them an hour and 15 minutes and she said all they'd been doing is yapping in front of the curtain. Was a shocking CE service.
The current mentality of the BA crew is wired to provide bare minimum service, combine this with bare bone (cost cutting) cateringÖ..and you can easily figure the rest out.

Most of my recent CW and CE flights have seen the crew spend more time gossiping / chatting behind curtain post takeoff than actually prepping for service, and then taking their time to do the restÖ

Compare this with another carrier that I shall not name where the entire business class crew was hustling nonstop pre-departure to get service prepped as much as possible on the ground (right to the minute the captain announced crew to take seats) and then managed to dish out all post take off drink orders + warm nuts within 5 minutes after the seat belt sign was switched off for the crew.

Iím afraid the motivation / drive to deliver exceptional service is just simply not there at the moment and it shows on a day to day basis. Someone on another thread described working for BA akin to working for your local leisure centre aka why give a s*** when everything around you is crumbling down.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 10:39 am
  #52  
 
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I'd throw in what someone else said. By the sounds of things, BA are not great at the moment, particularly being on time. Sadly with my flights this year (about to do my tenth), about 50% are on time (and by on time, I'm not being pernickety - it's about is it 30 mins or more late arriving). I've had cancelled flights by Finnair on the morning of travel and Lufthansa's service is now awful with lounges closing early so you simply can't even visit them if you're on a late flight. I've ended up staying overnight in AMS due to a missed connection and then the taxi driver the next morning thinking that not allowing 3 hours is going to be trouble (it was about 45 mins to get through security).

So my advice to the OP is to try some other airlines and decide if it's an industry thing or BA thing.

Note I'm based near MAN so I often won't fly BA, as they're either too expensive or don't offer the right flight times.


T
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Old Sep 21, 22, 11:05 am
  #53  
 
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I’m in the middle of a four flight trip. The last leg is with BA. Originally it was with AA but that was cancelled so I am on BA. It is the old Club seat and I’m really not looking forward to the one tray service (last time we were asked if we wanted a drink quite quickly and the G&T arrived an hour later with the meal). On the way out AA were fantastic.

BA. Not an airline you choose, just an airline you end up with.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 11:21 am
  #54  
 
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Originally Posted by Blenheim View Post
If that is how you feel why did you choose to fly 11 times in 15 Days?
Are you assuming each fight was booked after the previous orÖ?
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Old Sep 21, 22, 11:40 am
  #55  
 
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Whilst I do agree with you on some points you made, I don't think BA is all that bad. LHR is a nice airport to fly in and out of AS LONG as you don't connect to a different terminal. I also think that you are never out of shopping and dining options at LHR and their prices remain competitive. To top it all off, I do think that LHR staff are rather warm, friendly and helpful. The £5 drop off charge is infuriating. I do think that this should only be implemented during the morning and evening rush hour.

BA on the other hand, I do agree with most that catering in all classes is a disgrace. However, it is not all bad. I have a very soft spot for BA crew, especially when flying back here in the UK. There is just something about them that makes me feel like at home. I can easily bypass or look past the catering because I am a very picky eater myself and sometimes I do eat in the lounge and give the meals a skip unless I want to eat again or try what's served out of curiosity. There are areas where BA lacks and need to fill a gap but there are also areas where BA truly shine against their competitors. Not all airlines are perfect as everyone have said. Given the choices, I think you could have chosen to fly with AA.

When flying within Europe, I go AF-KL by default. With the chaos seen in AMS, I haven't really experienced it myself due to having Sky Priority access and flying with AF and transitting in CDG was a breeze. I have recently flown with IB and I must say I was impressed with their service compared to when I last flew with them in March 2020 and have seen improvements. Service in PEY was very personalised and the crew were even better than before. MAD on the other hand was a breeze to transit to and from but lines in MAD can be out of control.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 11:40 am
  #56  
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Originally Posted by srbrenna View Post
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...
BA. Not an airline you choose, just an airline you end up with.
How very true! And a shadow of its former self.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 12:08 pm
  #57  
 
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Originally Posted by srbrenna View Post
BA. Not an airline you choose, just an airline you end up with.
goodness Ė this is just spot-on. As soon as Iíve used up all my vouchers and Avios I shall be free to select the airline of my choice. Only four more trips to Freedom. Unsurprisingly, it almost certainly wonít be BA. So sad really that it has come to this.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 1:03 pm
  #58  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
How very true! And a shadow of its former self.
Thats a bit too much doom and gloom IMHO.

I think BA have 2 main issues atm, both within their control:

- The soft product in CW, and to a lesser extent CE (havenít flown F so canít comment). Choice and quality of food is very poor. One only has to look at the first post in the CW catering thread to see how far things have fallen.

- Customer service, ground and in the air. Post-Covid there has been a big dip in service quality and consistency. Definitely in the air: CC seem less interested, and discovering new lows in Ďgoing through the motionsí. I donít have much in-depth BA ground staff interaction, but reports from many indicate the same applies. All the above said, it is very much the case that there are exceptions. Indeed, I had some of my best CE cabin crew ever in the immediate post-Covid period.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 1:10 pm
  #59  
 
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CE catering and service is light years ahead of UA Polaris long haul and domestic F. There are some truly ghastly mains these days on UA.

My BA F flights and CCR service this past summer were very good to excellent.

It ainít all doom and gloom at BA.
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Old Sep 21, 22, 1:21 pm
  #60  
 
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Originally Posted by krispy84 View Post
Thats a bit too much doom and gloom IMHO.

I think BA have 2 main issues atm, both within their control:

- The soft product in CW, and to a lesser extent CE (havenít flown F so canít comment). Choice and quality of food is very poor. One only has to look at the first post in the CW catering thread to see how far things have fallen.

- Customer service, ground and in the air. Post-Covid there has been a big dip in service quality and consistency. Definitely in the air: CC seem less interested, and discovering new lows in Ďgoing through the motionsí. I donít have much in-depth BA ground staff interaction, but reports from many indicate the same applies. All the above said, it is very much the case that there are exceptions. Indeed, I had some of my best CE cabin crew ever in the immediate post-Covid period.
Personally I would say the (O)CW hard product was of more pressing importance than the soft product. But only just.
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