botham

Over the last week, we have flown from LHR to MUC and return. On both flights we were subject to ATC delays, which I can’t understand as there are now far fewer flights, due to post Covid restrictions.

Further, since leaving the EU, immigration at MUC has become much more complicated, with long delays. Is this the same throughout Europe?

Upon arrival at LHR last night, families with children under 12, had a long wait at immigration, which was very distressing for two families in our group. Others had virtually no wait.

As an aside, on the outbound flight plane was changed from 319 to 320, leaving my ‘exit’ row seats (row10) as non exit row. Fortunately, I had also booked row 11 for other members of my family and was therefore able to sit in the exit row. Very frustrating, as I had booked the seats many months ago.

nufnuf77

Thanks for sharing your experience - what are you looking for from us?
atc isn’t much better than pre covid these days! And swaps of aircraft do unfortunately happen

orbitmic

Indeed.

1. Short staffing as people were let go during Covid, then insufficiently replaced so now when enough are sick due to Covid, things just don’t run and since we are now down to a much smaller national workforce pool we are worse affected by staff shortage than others;

2. Brexit

3 See 1

4. Normal Ba equipment changes do occur including at the last minute. Chances are that if they had kept the 319 and you exit row, some people would have been denied boarding so good they changed…

KARFA

So in terms of immigration entering the EU it’s quite variable depending where you are going and what time of day you arrive. However in general it will take long since in most places UK passport holders can’t use e-passport gates and do need a stamp now.

Coming in to the UK I can’t see there would have been any changes to your experience due to brexit. Unfortunately under 12 year olds can’t use e-passport gates so it will always be a wait for a manual check.

botham

Apparently, The flight from Heathrow is Allways a 320 and return 319, leaving a crew member with no job on the return

CarefreeBA

As for ATC delays, flights from LHR-MUC fly along a now-heavy congested part of German airspace. This is due to certain flights from Europe to Asia previously taking a more northerly route via Russia which are now forced south. Often this delay is moderate, however if bad weather is present elsewhere, then it can also affect that piece of airspace.

13901

There aren’t “far fewer” flights now, that’s no longer true. If you check Eurocontrol’s dashboard, at a continental level we are about 10-11% below 2019 levels, which is a lot more than anyone expected in terms of recovery. And if one considers that Asia is still partially shut it means that certain markets are actually going above ‘19 levels. Ryanair is flying more now than in ‘19.

As for immigration delays… well, “take back control”.

drykloke

Horrible Immigration queues at LHR T5 Saturday 30 July 2022.
Flights from Delhi and Abuja arrived at almost same time.
Three manned immigration desks to process two widebody planes for non-UK nationals.At 1900h, this fell to one manned desk only.
Similarly three manned desks for UK passport holders who are unable to use e-gates.

​​​​​​Simple mathematics - 2-3 hours of long, snaking queues whichever category you are in.

I wouldn't mind so much if it wasn't for the aggressive criticism directed at under-staffing of French border control in Dover.

KARFA

not to disagree with your cookie cutter approach to the issue, but immigration delays entering the EU are beyond the control of the UK though, although one hopes they will improve with the introduction of ETIAS next year.

immigration waits entering the UK like the OP experienced are within our control but haven’t really changed in relation to brexit.

Butts

Am I correct in the assumption that EU Passport Holders are still allowed to use the E-Gates to enter the UK ?

If this is the case should we not make citizens of those countries that don't reciprocate use the manual check.

This would speed up entry for us ?

KARFA

it is correct and ideally it should be reciprocal.

However I wouldn’t agree with some kind of punishment withdrawal of that privilege for EU passport holders entering the UK.

corporate-wage-slave

The UK arrival experience, during school holidays, has often been poor, I actually think it's got a bit better overall since so many people can use e-gates and they dropped the age down to 12. There are some parts of the day when it's bad (when the bank of North American flights arrive, late in the evening) but mid week mid afternoon shouldn't be too bad. You asked if immigration is slow throughout Europe, and the answer is no. Spain - at the beach resorts - does lip service to Schengen and sometimes doesn't have anyone on passport control at all. France (despite the issues at Dover-Folkestone) is also pragmatic in many place. Many places are using e-gates in both direction, such as Italy, Spain and Portugal. Germany? Well they are quite good at sticking to the rule book perhaps? ETIAS is due next year which in theory makes life easier, albeit with a small financial cost and advance preparation needed. But ultimately this is what the UK voted for, we no longer have free movement and that's not going to change anytime soon. ATC should get better, part of that will be dealt with by recruitment and training, which is happening, along with improved computerisation. And when Russia's army gets slung out of Ukraine.

Bohinjska Bistrica

Removing e-gate access for EU passports on the basis that the EU doesn't (generally) permit UK passports to use the e-gates at the moment would ultimately screw the lot of us with added delays. There aren't enough manned desks at any one time to cope with that.

I am inclined to agree facilitations should be reciprocal, but making it worse for everyone to try and prove a point is not sensible.

drykloke

What if there are EU passport holders who cannot use the E-gates? They now have to face standard processing channels and be subject to greater checks , thus taking more time in an already overstretched system.

corporate-wage-slave

More people using e-gates = less queues all round. Temporary issue anyway, ETIAS next year will involve e-gates both in and out of Schengen.