BA 777-9 deliveries now 2026-2028
#16
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I don't think anyone really anticipated travel would rebound this quickly.
#17
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The oldest 77W is less than 20 years old and those aircraft typically have a 30+ year lifespan. The operators have plenty of options available to them for now:
- Keep flying your current fleet
- Order A350-1000 if you want/need a similar sized replacement with improved economics and passenger comfort
- Order 777-9 for delivery later in the decade if you want to moderately upgauge and minimize pilot retraining
- Go smaller/more frequent with A350 or B787 if you no longer need the size of the 77W
#18
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Why?
The oldest 77W is less than 20 years old and those aircraft typically have a 30+ year lifespan. The operators have plenty of options available to them for now:
The oldest 77W is less than 20 years old and those aircraft typically have a 30+ year lifespan. The operators have plenty of options available to them for now:
- Keep flying your current fleet
- Order A350-1000 if you want/need a similar sized replacement with improved economics and passenger comfort
- Order 777-9 for delivery later in the decade if you want to moderately upgauge and minimize pilot retraining
- Go smaller/more frequent with A350 or B787 if you no longer need the size of the 77W
#19
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,218
Why?
The oldest 77W is less than 20 years old and those aircraft typically have a 30+ year lifespan. The operators have plenty of options available to them for now:
The oldest 77W is less than 20 years old and those aircraft typically have a 30+ year lifespan. The operators have plenty of options available to them for now:
- Keep flying your current fleet
- Order A350-1000 if you want/need a similar sized replacement with improved economics and passenger comfort
- Order 777-9 for delivery later in the decade if you want to moderately upgauge and minimize pilot retraining
- Go smaller/more frequent with A350 or B787 if you no longer need the size of the 77W
If you have it in your fleet, chances are that it’s smack-bang in the sweet spot in terms of sizes, so downsizing might be good on some routes but, in the longer run, will hurt your cost base. So you need a 77W-like plane.
But then, what do you do? 35K? Is it that much better than the 77W? It hasn’t, so far, replaced a lot of them. And what if you order it and Airbus announces a neo version? The 77X then. But… when is it arriving? And is it as much an improvement as the old 77W was? That’s what I meant.
#20
Join Date: Jun 2016
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True, they're wholly new 'birds'. However - and I should caveat that I'm not an engineer here, so what I'm about to write needs to be fact-checked - in my understanding of things the big increments in what matters to a modern airliner (fuel consumption, lift performance, range, etc) comes from wings and engines. The 77X will have newer wings and engines than both 787 and 350.
- Airbus A350-1000: 284,000 lb (129,000 kg)
- Boeing 777-9: 400,000 lb (181,400 kg)
#22
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,218
Whilst this is true, the composite fuselage of the A350 delivers an empty weight in comparison with 77X as follows:
- Airbus A350-1000: 284,000 lb (129,000 kg)
- Boeing 777-9: 400,000 lb (181,400 kg)
Last edited by 13901; Jul 29, 2022 at 10:58 am
#23
Join Date: May 2007
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Whilst this is true, the composite fuselage of the A350 delivers an empty weight in comparison with 77X as follows:
- Airbus A350-1000: 284,000 lb (129,000 kg)
- Boeing 777-9: 400,000 lb (181,400 kg)
There is heated debate on various forums about the payload/range of the A35K Vs 779. The reality is that outside of the ME3 flying to the US West Coast the payload/range of these aircraft is overkill for most routes. LON-LAX, even with a full PAX load will barely make these things run a sweat.
You see a similar debate about the larger 737MAX variants - an apparently completely hopeless aircraft because it cant take a transcon load out of short runways that are completely irrelevant for 99% of the potential routes it could be used on.
#24
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#26
Suspended
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An unending series of updates and upgrades both during and after manufacturing, along with the very different values prioritized in aircraft design make the comparison invalid.
#27
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From a passenger perspective we need more Airbus and less Boeing. The 777 and various iterations might be an operators dream but they aren’t nice to fly, the 787 is really poor. A330 and A350 are really so much better.
#28
Join Date: Apr 2018
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#29
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#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,836
Some airlines are also using this delay to revisit and potentially revise their 777-9 first class and business class product, based on it being nearly locked in several years back but now risking being no better than (and for some, potentially behind the pace of) the 'state of the industry' products by the time their 777-9s finally arrive. Nothing major, just small touches to ensure they're putting but foot forward.
However, this is also leading some 777-9 customers to look at an unexpected refresh of their current business class, which based on original Boeing estimates they'd figured would by now be superseded by the new 777-9s. As that's not the case and those current business class products now have several more years as the 'flagship' product, several seatmakers and design firms tell me airlines have contacted them regarding a mid-life refresh (or maybe a 'later-in-life' refresh?).