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Is it legal for British Airways to raise price on second page of booking?

Is it legal for British Airways to raise price on second page of booking?

Old Jul 25, 22, 3:28 pm
  #16  
 
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OP, are you in business class? s the extra $$ for APD?

Last edited by Bradhattan; Jul 25, 22 at 3:29 pm Reason: hit sensend t
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Old Jul 25, 22, 3:28 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
On the quote page, for an economy booking I have just tested with, it does stateTotal Price (Including all taxes, fees, and carrier charges)
13000 Avios + 52.93
More pricing options
(You will see exact cost after you click 'Continue')

Despite having no Avios, I was able to continue and did then get a page with greyed out options from
13,000 plus 50.10 through to 4550 plus 115.10
yes. now imagine being a regular joe booking BA award (possibly for the first time).

you see... "Total Price (Including all taxes, fees, and carrier charges): $64.80"

you click Continue, and it tells you "You require an additional 4550 Avios to make this booking with Avios & money."

"How many Avios do you want to use for your flight?"
13000 Avios + $ 199.80
10400 Avios + $ 234.80
8450 Avios + $ 259.80
6500 Avios + $ 279.80
5200 Avios + $ 294.80
4550 Avios + $ 299.80


Would you have any reason to attempt to struggle through reading the greyed out texts?

Or even expect that it'd be different from the "total price" shown in the previous page?

Would there be any reason to suspect that the previously shown price is inaccurate, and one of the figures among the greyed out prices is the accurate one? If you didn't have prior knowledge that this is something BA (and only BA) is wont to do.

There is no breakdown of the taxes and fees anywhere, unless you have enough Avios to select one of the options.

Is it unreasonable if a regular joe considers this practice deceptive?

Last edited by ffly45; Jul 26, 22 at 2:01 pm
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Old Jul 25, 22, 3:44 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by KARFA View Post
well I think you have a way forward here by filing a DoT complaint. It would be great if you could update the board on how you get on.
guess i expected to find consistent, established (positive/negative) outcomes regarding this on FT, since from the phone call it sounded like BA has been flagrantly doing this for a while now.

i filed a complaint, but don't expect much from it; BA is probably too big for DOT.
Originally Posted by Bradhattan View Post
OP, are you in business class? s the extra $$ for APD?
Y class. but no way to even know what the fees are for unless you already have enough Avios in your account to make that selection on the second page.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 3:48 pm
  #19  
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I am not defending BA, just correcting the implication that the correct price couldnt be determined before an Avios transfer

What is interesting is the huge difference between what quote I get for US-UK and you do. The initial quote of $64 seems to be in line with the GBP amount that I was quoted. going to the 2nd screen, cannot understand why you then get a huge price hike and this would seem to be in breach of DOT policy; BA is not too big for DOT and will be interesting to hear what DOT has to say - main part I would say with the complain is to highlight which rule BA is in breach of
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:01 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
I am not defending BA, just correcting the implication that the correct price couldnt be determined before an Avios transfer
please read post #17 above for my view on this.

Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
What is interesting is the huge difference between what quote I get for US-UK and you do. The initial quote of $64 seems to be in line with the GBP amount that I was quoted. going to the 2nd screen, cannot understand why you then get a huge price hike and this would seem to be in breach of DOT policy; BA is not too big for DOT and will be interesting to hear what DOT has to say - main part I would say with the complain is to highlight which rule BA is in breach of
i meant BA is too big for the guy in the DOT who will read my complaint and need to figure out which of their rules BA is breaching without me highlighting it. so i don't really expect anything will happen from this.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:02 pm
  #21  
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Note that it is the position of the U.S. DOT that airfare quotes must include all taxes, fees, and carrier surcharges the first time that a quote is given. That suggests that BA could be in some difficulty here:

https://www.transportation.gov/brief...-free-airfares
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:06 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by ffly45 View Post
please read post #17 above for my view on this.


i meant BA is too big for the guy in the DOT who will read my complaint and need to figure out which of their rules BA is breaching without me highlighting it. so i don't really expect anything will happen from this.
I would not be so pessimistic.

When I filed a DOT complaint against Iberia a few years ago, the results were everything that I could have hoped for:

Iberia agrees to refund improperly-collected PFCs on certain redemption tickets.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:09 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by guv1976 View Post
File a consumer complaint with the U.S. Department of Transportation and you'll find out:

https://www.transportation.gov/airco...umer-complaint
Originally Posted by HIDDY View Post
Pretty sure this subject has been discussed on here several times over the years. If they were up to no good you'd have thought they'd have been forced to stop doing it by now.
100% illegal, they've been fined for this before.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...o_2016-3-9.pdf

Originally Posted by DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
He alleges that when he selected a Philadelphia to Munich route, operated by US Airways, the British Airways site quoted a total price, including all taxes, fees, and carrier charges, of 25000 Avios points and $23. According to the Complainant, when he clicked “Continue,” the following page quoted a dollar figure of $285.80, instead of the $23 originally quoted.
Originally Posted by DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
We find that British Airways PLC violated 14 CFR 399.84(a) by failing to state the full cost of the taxes, fees, and carrier charges to be paid by the consumer on its U.S. website;
Frankly they deserve the book thrown at them for their contempt.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:10 pm
  #24  
 
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Is it possible that someone else booked a seat in the time that it took to transfer the miles and the price went up due to reduced availability? Because that would not run afoul of dot regs.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:11 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by ffly45 View Post
yes. now imagine being a regular joe booking BA award (possibly for the first time).

you see... "Total Price (Including all taxes, fees, and carrier charges): $64.80"

you click Continue, and it tells you "You require an additional 4550 Avios to make this booking with Avios & money."

"How many Avios do you want to use for your flight?"
13000 Avios + $ 199.80
10400 Avios + $ 234.80
8450 Avios + $ 259.80
6500 Avios + $ 279.80
5200 Avios + $ 294.80
4550 Avios + $ 299.80


Would you have any reason to attempt to struggle through reading the greyed out texts?

Or even expect that it'd be different from the "total price" shown in the previous page?

Would there be any reason to suspect that the previously shown price is inaccurate, and one of the figures among the greyed out prices is the accurate one? If you didn't have prior knowledge that this is something BA (and only BA) is wont to do.

There is no breakdown of the taxes and fees anywhere, unless you have enough Avios to select one of the options.

Is it too unreasonable for regular joe to consider this practice deceptive?
Unless I am missing something here, you are being prompted for higher taxes because you do not have enough avios to get the option with the lower taxes i.e. the 25000 avios needed to get the $64.80 tax rate.

So on the next screen it calculates what you can do with the avios you have. I think there is a general expectation that you know how much avios you have available to you (and you can simply top it up to get the tax rate you want also) in the same way you would check in any points scheme. There is a 'more pricing option' on the first screen to see what you can get for different avois bands. I quite like the fact that BA give this flexibility and I have used it a few times.

If you have the 25k avios then I do not know why you are not getting it on the 2nd screen, like it appears others are, including me where I get it for 50 taxes
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:14 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by guv1976 View Post
I would not be so pessimistic.

When I filed a DOT complaint against Iberia a few years ago, the results were everything that I could have hoped for:

Iberia agrees to refund improperly-collected PFCs on certain redemption tickets.
i guess i was implying that even if they made it right for me, i doubt the DOT can force BA to change this practice, which i find quite dirty.
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:26 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by ffly45 View Post
i guess i was implying that even if they made it right for me, i doubt the DOT can force BA to change this practice, which i find quite dirty.
The tool that the DOT has to force a carrier to comply is a hefty fine for each instance of non-compliance. The more complaints the DOT receives for repeated violations of DOT regulations, the more likely it is that a carrier will (eventually) comply.

And while I do not know if this is the case, it is conceivable that the DOT could suspend a carrier's right to operate to/from the U.S. for repeated violations of DOT regulations.

Since another poster raised the issue, can you confirm that the number of Avios required was the same in both the first and second quotes, and that only the cash component differed?
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Old Jul 25, 22, 4:51 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by roked View Post
Unless I am missing something here, you are being prompted for higher taxes because you do not have enough avios to get the option with the lower taxes i.e. the 25000 avios needed to get the $64.80 tax rate.

So on the next screen it calculates what you can do with the avios you have. I think there is a general expectation that you know how much avios you have available to you (and you can simply top it up to get the tax rate you want also) in the same way you would check in any points scheme. There is a 'more pricing option' on the first screen to see what you can get for different avois bands. I quite like the fact that BA give this flexibility and I have used it a few times.

If you have the 25k avios then I do not know why you are not getting it on the 2nd screen, like it appears others are, including me where I get it for 50 taxes
there is no 25000 Avios option. you're conflating this one with the reference from the case cited by another user.
on the first screen it shows 13000 Avios + $64.80; on the second page it shows 13000 Avios + $199.60.

Originally Posted by dblumenhoff View Post
Is it possible that someone else booked a seat in the time that it took to transfer the miles and the price went up due to reduced availability? Because that would not run afoul of dot regs.
no. the miles required is still 13000 Avios. and there are still award seats available. and the price discrepancies between pages are still there if you search yourself.
the "taxes and fees" for the same ticket price couldn't possibly legally vary based on availability of seats, at least on grounds of discrimination.

Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
100% illegal, they've been fined for this before.
https://www.transportation.gov/sites...o_2016-3-9.pdf
Originally Posted by DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
He alleges that when he selected a Philadelphia to Munich route, operated by US Airways, the British Airways site quoted a total price, including all taxes, fees, and carrier charges, of 25000 Avios points and $23. According to the Complainant, when he clicked “Continue,” the following page quoted a dollar figure of $285.80, instead of the $23 originally quoted.
Originally Posted by DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
We find that British Airways PLC violated 14 CFR 399.84(a) by failing to state the full cost of the taxes, fees, and carrier charges to be paid by the consumer on its U.S. website;
Frankly they deserve the book thrown at them for their contempt.
they'd been caught doing it almost a decade ago, paid a pittance in fines, made insincere assurances that they fixed the issue, and have since continued to violate the law for years now.
perhaps this is why i say BA is too big for the DOT. 😏
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Last edited by ffly45; Jul 25, 22 at 5:00 pm
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Old Jul 25, 22, 5:05 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by ffly45 View Post
there is no 25000 Avios option. you're conflating this one with the reference from the case cited by another user.
on the first screen it shows 13000 Avios + $64.80; on the second page it shows 13000 Avios + $199.60.
The JFK-LHR flights are 25k, so do not understand why you are not seeing that option. It does look like it is bugged in what its showing you for some reason,,, Out of interest, if you click more pricing options on the first screen (should be visible in the box at the bottom after you select the flight), what do you see?
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Old Jul 25, 22, 5:09 pm
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Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
100% illegal, they've been fined for this before.

https://www.transportation.gov/sites...o_2016-3-9.pdf

Frankly they deserve the book thrown at them for their contempt.
Wow... BA's defence was very high handed:

"​​​​​​British Airways requested that the Department dismiss the Complaint and raised five affirmative
defenses: 1) the Complaint fails to state a claim upon which relief may be granted; 2) the
Complainant lacks a private right of action under 49 U.S.C. 41712; 3) the Complainant has not
suffered any harm; 4) the Complainant lacks standing; and 5) the Complaint is moot."

No wonder the defence was thrown out and they were ultimately fined US$40,000 in civil penalties.
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