topperdoggle

Yes, I know there are many threads about the subject on here and elsewhere, but they are mostly out of date, often pre-COVID, and this flight is unlikely to be busy (read on).

Flying tomorrow TLV -> LHR BA 164. It's the Jewish sabbath so religious people won't be flying and the airport and flight will be less busy than usual. Although I no longer have an ExpertFlyer account so who knows for sure.

I've read horror stories about BA's attitude towards guitars in recent years, but of course one must take things online in proportion / with a pinch of salt.

Does anyone have concrete knowledge? If I turn up with an electric guitar in a soft case that can go in the overhead or in the crew coat cupboard, will they force me to put it in the hold or is there a decent chance that they won't bat an eyelid?

I'm aware of the small print in the regulations - the guitar is not worth enough to justify buying a second seat or checking it in in a hard case. I'm taking it for sentimental value alone.

For what it's worth, over the years I've flown on various airlines with guitars in soft cases in the overheads, been polite, never drawn attention to it, and I've never had a problem, but again reading about BA in recent times it seems a little worrying.

corporate-wage-slave

There is chapter and verse about this in the relevant bit to BA.com
ba.com/baggage
but in summary there is an expectation that guitars go into the hold, except if travelling Club World or First.

BA164 tomorrow looks to me to be nearly sold out overall, maybe 4 seats left at a guess, and overbooked in WT and WTP.

topperdoggle

Thank you c-w-s (and thank you for all you do, anyone around here can see how much you contribute).

Indeed, I'm familiar with the "chapter and verse" that you mention (I called it the small print), and that's why I'm posting here - I want to ascertain if people have had an empathetic experience as is most of the time on most airlines or if it has been "computer says no".

Amazing that the flight is so busy on a Saturday; apparently there are many non-observant people who are looking for a break!

I am flying WT this time, although I do have OneWorld Emerald so I guess they won't kick me off...

Edit: Perhaps even in a soft case (padded gig bag), if they did ask me to gate check it, it wouldn't be that bad. Gate checking seems to avoid most of the issues with checking in luggage (conveyors, being thrown around etc). If I understand correctly, gate checking is free of charge, and I get the item back next to the plane rather than on the conveyor belt. Does that sound reasonable, or is gate checking just as bad as checking in at the desk?

corporate-wage-slave

Overbooked, but not oversold, I can't see anyone being kicked off regardless of status. Some may end up a little further forward than booked, and I've not doubt POUG offers are going around too. I'm flying TLV-LHR on the Shabbat next week, it's even fuller than your service, but like most people I'm non-observant. And not Jewish!

orbitmic

Typically, in July and August virtually all TLV flights are packed regardless of day and time, and particularly this year given past restrictions. Whilst religious people may be noticed, they are actually a small part of the flying contingent and as LY doesn’t fly on sabbath, competitors are the only option.

I’ve not seen anyone bring a guitar on board in a long long time and would fully expect them to be denied. The problem is you can’t put them orthogonally to the bins and thus they will effectively take the whole bin and deprive others of the space so I think chapter and verse is exactly what you’ll get if you try and you are much better off taking a hard case to send them in the hold.

topperdoggle

Ah, got it, thank you. Shame we'll miss each other; I return on the 31st, would happily buy you a beer / shawarma.

BTW, did you see my post edit? Perhaps a gate check as a last resort wouldn't be a disaster i.e. I could take my chances that everything will be "normal" (overhead or crew closet) and if they say I must gate check it, that's not as bad as a "proper" check in.

orbitmic

that’s incorrect on several counts: on those planes, any gate checked item will be delivered with the rest of luggage on the belt. Only regional jets get it delivered at foot of the plane. And gate checking of ineligible hand luggage absolutely can incur charges. It’s only when Ba invites people to gate check (usually on full short haul) that they will specifically offer to do it for free.

in any case, if you try to bring your guitar as hand luggage I suspect there is a strong chance you’ll be turned off at security and ask to get back to check in especially at the FW as you have to pass BA agents anyway.

corporate-wage-slave

You would only get that far if you were not checking anything in, and thus got to the gate without seeing anyone from check-in. You may be able to say "I'll hand it over at the gate", but they may not want to hear that. If it goes it at the gate then yes it will get handled fairly well at TLV, but at LHR it comes out for delivery in baggage reclaim. It would be probably on top of the bins, so if padded it should be OK. But the advice is to use a hard case. You may be able to improvise something (sheets of plastic for example).

topperdoggle

According to Wikipedia, as of 2020 ~73% of Israelis identify as Jewish, of which ~40% are observant. That's a fair chunk, but I do take your point about LY. Historically, I've always found flying on the Sabbath (Friday night as well as Saturday) to be much quieter, less full planes, more chilled out.

I take your point about the bins; a solid body electric guitar (which I have) is much thinner than an acoustic, but obviously the electric still has some depth.

Well, there goes my "research", including https://www.travisraab.com/how-to-ca...very-time.html and others.

Interesting comment about security - surprised they would care, would have thought they'd have better things to do.

topperdoggle

Well, I'm not planning to check anything in, there are horror stories of delays and I'm a single guy going for a week to visit family, so just a small soft trolley for me.

I know the advice, the thing is that a hard case surely reduces my chance of getting in the overheads or the coat closet to zero. Although if I knew that I could do a hard case via gate check in, and not pay to do so, I would be more than happy with that.

At this time I'm leaning towards a decently-padded but not bulky soft case, and I'll wrap the guitar inside in bubble wrap in case it has to go in the gate. I'll also ask on the Israeli FB musicians' groups what recent experiences have been like.

mandolino

As my handle suggests, I take a mandolin everywhere with me. Including to Israel on KLM, BA and El-Al.
In a soft but sturdy gig bag.

Much smaller than a guitar of course, although still longer than normal have baggage allowance, but complies with the cabin baggage "small instrument" policies (which usually state "... such as a violin" - mandolin is similar scale length) of those airlines that have them.
Guitars are usually explicitly excluded.

However, I keep my eyes out for other travelers carrying instruments and have occasionally even had a few jams with them in the airport. I have occasionally seen guitars onboard , so I guess they've been able to persuade check-in people but it's very unusual.

if you're checking it:
The most vulnerable part of a solid body electric guitar is the neck. I have seen these snapped off even in the sturdiest of hard cases, due to the case being dropped I guess. So even in a bombproof case, you need to have the neck very well supported inside.

Another thought:
If it's a bolt-on neck, in the style of say a fender telecaster, you might be able to disassemble it to make it short enough for cabin baggage?

orbitmic

i suspect the website in your link is essentially flying us domestic. There Gate checking indeed results on gate delivery. In Europe and the rest of the world it typically isn’t so.

Airlines usually brief security in what not to allow through because precisely gate checking results in time wasting and delays. They may not know all the details but when hey see something « obviously » oversize, they often send it back.* admittedly some airports (notably those with lots of low cost airlines) are particularly good at that I was mentioning F wing in particular because there you first pass BA staff who would immediately spot the issue.

*fun fact: several airlines (though mostly low cost) even provide financial incentives to airport security for barring non compliant hand luggage and sending pax back to the counter. I do not believe Ba is one of them and I believe FR was first to start that trend. In some airports, this can lead to 6 figure checks to the airport each year.

salut0

Can’t resist posting this:


If the unthinkable happens, maybe you can do your own version of the song for BA?

I should add that I remember a flight with El Al in the 1990s or 2000 when I remember an Irish Catholic woman bringing a huge canister (like the size of a gas cylinder) of “holy water from the Jordan” on to the plane and tried to leave it in the space between the emergency exit and the crew jump seat and the exit row. El Al staff helped her put it elsewhere, I think behind the back row of seats. But nowadays nobody’s bringing water on the plane, let alone that kind of quantity!

ratechaser

I think there may be an exemption for anyone that knows how to play "the river of Jordan"

salut0

Horrible sounding scam! Where did you find out about this?