deep_south

BA have refused my EC261 claim for a cancelled NCL - LHR flight (BA1333) on Wed 25th May. It was cancelled at 9pm the previous night and we were moved to the next flight an hour or so late. We had a previous cancellation on the mid morning flight.

They say "As your flight was cancelled because of adverse weather conditions due to strong winds, it means you’re not eligible for EU compensation"

The flight they put us on was nowhere near full, and could easily accommodate two flights worth of passengers which makes me think this was a commercial decision. I don't recall any weather issues on the way in to LHR. I have done a google search but can't find any historical data. I requested they provide me with the information they have showing the ATC delays at 3,000 feet but for some reason they haven't done this...

Can anyone help please?

fluffymitten

It was a bit windy by the looks of the historical data:
https://www.visualcrossing.com/weath...-25/2022-05-25

1Aturnleft

Its up to BA to prove, not for you to demonstrate.
Commence MCOL against BA and they will settle the claim before it get to be heard.

steve170461

They are trying a similar tactic with friends of mine, who funnily enough missed their NCL connection after arriving from BGI. They are claiming the BGI inbound was subject to a 19 minute weather delay which then led to them missing the connection. I have access to the historical METAR weather reports as well as any applicable ATC regulations (there weren't any) and Flight Radar24 replay showing the flight operating at normal speeds and only one orbit carried out. BA are digging their heels in at present, and so far have been unable to prove the weather regulation. They have now paid EU261 for my friends' on the outbound leg and so they are starting a whole new claim for their return to avoid confusion with the outbound delay.

737Av8tor

Historic METARS for 25 May at LHR:

METAR/SPECI from EGLL, London / Heathrow Airport (United Kingdom).
SA 25/05/2022 17:50->METAR COR EGLL 251750Z AUTO 26017KT 9999 FEW036 SCT042 17/10 Q1014 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 17:20->METAR COR EGLL 251720Z AUTO 26016KT 9999 FEW035 18/09 Q1014 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 16:50->METAR COR EGLL 251650Z AUTO 26017KT 9999 FEW045 18/10 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 16:20->METAR COR EGLL 251620Z AUTO 26016KT 9999 NCD 18/10 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 15:50->METAR COR EGLL 251550Z AUTO 25014KT 9999 FEW030 17/12 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 15:20->METAR COR EGLL 251520Z AUTO 24014G24KT 9999 FEW024 BKN047 16/14 Q1013 RERA NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 14:50->METAR COR EGLL 251450Z AUTO 26017KT 2300 RA FEW012 SCT018 BKN023 15/13 Q1013 REDZ BECMG 9999 NSW=
SA 25/05/2022 14:20->METAR COR EGLL 251420Z AUTO 24016KT 9000 -RA SCT017 BKN024 OVC036 16/13 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 13:50->METAR COR EGLL 251350Z AUTO 24019KT 9999 BKN024 BKN031 OVC044 17/11 Q1012 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 13:20->METAR COR EGLL 251320Z AUTO 24018KT 9999 SCT024 BKN029 BKN038 18/11 Q1012 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 12:50->METAR COR EGLL 251250Z AUTO 24016KT 9999 BKN023 BKN029 OVC044 16/11 Q1012 TEMPO BKN012=
SA 25/05/2022 12:20->METAR COR EGLL 251220Z AUTO 23018KT 9999 BKN022 OVC030 16/10 Q1012 TEMPO BKN012=
SA 25/05/2022 11:50->METAR COR EGLL 251150Z AUTO 23017KT 9999 BKN020 OVC029 16/10 Q1012 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 11:20->METAR COR EGLL 251120Z AUTO 23016KT 9999 BKN019 OVC023 15/10 Q1012 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 10:50->METAR COR EGLL 251050Z AUTO 22017KT 9999 BKN019 OVC029 15/10 Q1013 TEMPO BKN012=
SA 25/05/2022 10:20->METAR COR EGLL 251020Z AUTO 23015KT 9999 BKN021 OVC027 14/09 Q1013 TEMPO BKN012=
SA 25/05/2022 09:50->METAR COR EGLL 250950Z AUTO 23016KT 9999 BKN021 BKN026 OVC045 14/09 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 09:20->METAR COR EGLL 250920Z AUTO 23015G25KT 9999 -RA FEW026 SCT035 15/09 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 08:50->METAR COR EGLL 250850Z AUTO 23018KT 9999 BKN025 14/08 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 08:20->METAR COR EGLL 250820Z AUTO 23015KT 9999 FEW034 14/08 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 07:50->METAR COR EGLL 250750Z AUTO 24014KT 9999 NCD 14/08 Q1013 NOSIG=
SA 25/05/2022 07:20->METAR COR EGLL 250720Z AUTO 23013KT 9999 NCD 13/08 Q1013 NOSIG=

Maximum reported windspeed is gusting 24 kts, forecast was max 25 Kts but both 30 degrees off the runway access, so max effective x - wind is 1/2 reported windspeed i.e 12 knots.

Data for NCL same time periods

METAR/SPECI from EGNT, Newcastle (United Kingdom).

SA 25/05/2022 17:50->METAR EGNT 251750Z 27018KT 9999 FEW042 15/06 Q1007=
SA 25/05/2022 17:20->METAR EGNT 251720Z 28022KT 9999 SCT042 15/05 Q1006=
SA 25/05/2022 16:50->METAR EGNT 251650Z 28015KT 9999 SCT042 15/06 Q1006=
SA 25/05/2022 16:20->METAR EGNT 251620Z 27020G33KT 9999 SCT028 15/05 Q1005=
SA 25/05/2022 15:50->METAR EGNT 251550Z 27019KT 9999 SCT028 16/07 Q1005=
SA 25/05/2022 15:20->METAR EGNT 251520Z 26018KT 9999 SCT028 16/10 Q1004=
SA 25/05/2022 14:50->METAR EGNT 251450Z 26019KT 9999 -SHRA SCT030 15/09 Q1004=
SA 25/05/2022 14:20->METAR EGNT 251420Z 26017KT 9999 SCT020 15/11 Q1004=
SA 25/05/2022 13:50->METAR EGNT 251350Z NIL=
SA 25/05/2022 13:20->METAR EGNT 251320Z NIL=
SA 25/05/2022 12:50->METAR EGNT 251250Z 26023KT 9999 8000W VCSH FEW018 BKN030 17/09 Q1003=
SA 25/05/2022 12:20->METAR EGNT 251220Z 25019KT 9999 SCT025 16/09 Q1002=
SA 25/05/2022 11:50->METAR EGNT 251150Z 25017KT 9999 SCT025 16/09 Q1002=
SA 25/05/2022 11:20->METAR EGNT 251120Z 25017KT 9999 FEW013 SCT025 16/09 Q1002=
SA 25/05/2022 10:50->METAR EGNT 251050Z 26019KT 9999 VCSH FEW013 SCT025 15/10 Q1002=
SA 25/05/2022 10:20->METAR EGNT 251020Z 25016KT 9999 8000NW VCSH FEW013 SCT025 14/12 Q1002=
SA 25/05/2022 09:50->METAR EGNT 250950Z 24016G27KT 9999 6000W VCSH SCT024 15/09 Q1001=
SA 25/05/2022 09:20->METAR EGNT 250920Z 23013KT 9999 SCT028 15/09 Q1001=
SA 25/05/2022 08:50->METAR EGNT 250850Z 22014KT 9999 SCT025 15/09 Q1001=
SA 25/05/2022 08:20->METAR EGNT 250820Z 23012KT 190V260 9999 SCT025 15/09 Q1001=
SA 25/05/2022 07:50->METAR EGNT 250750Z NIL=
SA 25/05/2022 07:20->METAR EGNT 250720Z NIL=


Maximum windspeedis a gust to 33 knots, 20 degrees off runway axis, effective x - wind 11 knots.

Source OGIMET.

Tafflyer

It’s deceitful practices like this that convince me there must be punitive compensation awarded against carriers that incorrectly but deliberately deny claims. There really doesn’t seem to be any honour left.

737Av8tor

There really doesn’t seem to be any honour left.

Tafflyer, do you think they went to the same charm school as BoJo ?

Sigwx

It is the 3000ft winds that would be more significant in terms of flow rate reductions, that and CB activity in the London TMA. If anyone can find those and the flow rate the real truth will be known.

If they have been disingenuous, which really wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest then yes OP, absolutely take them to task.

Tafflyer

Seriously OT, but since you ask, by all accounts even his school gave up on that front.

737Av8tor

No mention of CBs in the TAFs.

The 3000ft wind wouldn't make any difference to the flow rate: each airplane would be subject to the wind.

KARFA

If that really was true it would seem TBS is a complete waste of time

KARFA

deep_south I would say it isn't really clear from the above about the weather.

I think as 1Aturnleft you will have to pursue this at CEDR or probably MCOL if you want to resolve this to a conclusion - certainly BA need to provide some evidence of what they are claiming as a reason for not paying compensation.

Sigwx

The CBs don’t have to be at the airfield for flow rate reductions. CBs dotted around London cause organised chaos whenever they occur. 3000ft winds most certainly do affect the flow rate and are often cited as the cause for regulation to be applied.

https://nats.aero/blog/2018/01/stron...affic-control/

737Av8tor

TBS is only applicable to departures for wake turbulence: for arrivals it is distance based separation. The UK CAA requirements are slightly different to ICAO.

And I forgot,Eurocontrol will assign speeds for arrivals a long way from destination based on estimates of arrival rate. W e also have to deal with speed control points on arrivals and the standard 250 below 100.

atcodave

TBS is only applicable to departures for wake turbulence: for arrivals it is distance based separation. Sorry but you’re wrong, TBS has been in use for arrivals at Heathrow for a number of years, so long that in 2018 they moved forward to enhanced TBS. Further details, should you wish, here https://www.nats.aero/news/enhanced-...row-operation/