‘You have to mask up to fly to Italy’
Jun 28, 2022, 6:33 am
#46
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Programs: Sir Ratechaser Seigneur de la Patience d'un Saint (Mucci), BA Silver, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 2,553
Perhaps there is a natural check and balance in that if you were kicked off a plane for refusing to do something 'legal' but patently ridiculous (see my earlier example), then you'd go straight to the Daily Mail or embarrass the airline in some other way. But it is nonetheless scary just how much absolute power might exist here to make passengers do pretty much anything.
Next thing we'll be ordered to wheel the BoB trolley round ourselves to save on CC costs...
Jun 28, 2022, 6:36 am
#47
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Programs: Sir Ratechaser Seigneur de la Patience d'un Saint (Mucci), BA Silver, Starbucks Gold
Posts: 2,553
But it wasn't unreasonable. Italy required masks to be worn on public transport - now here it doesn't apply to international flights but on a flight to Germany, which has the same rules, it DOES apply to international flights.
Is it so far a stretch that the cabin crew could have been given new information that morning? Either by the airline or the government?
They weren't asking OP to wear a fedora. It was a mask, which has been mandatory - on and off - for two years - and still mandatory today to some destinations.
Put the mask on. Politely question the policy with the crew. And if they have made a mistake - take it off when the announcement is made.
But stomping feet - as is being advocated by some here - should see you removed from the aircraft, IMHO. Unless you work for the Italian Goverment Health Department, you cannot be 100% confident something hasn't changed in the very recent past regarding mask madates in the current climate.
Is it so far a stretch that the cabin crew could have been given new information that morning? Either by the airline or the government?
They weren't asking OP to wear a fedora. It was a mask, which has been mandatory - on and off - for two years - and still mandatory today to some destinations.
Put the mask on. Politely question the policy with the crew. And if they have made a mistake - take it off when the announcement is made.
But stomping feet - as is being advocated by some here - should see you removed from the aircraft, IMHO. Unless you work for the Italian Goverment Health Department, you cannot be 100% confident something hasn't changed in the very recent past regarding mask madates in the current climate.
Jun 28, 2022, 6:49 am
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: LON, ACK, BOS..... (Not necessarily in that order)
Programs: **Mucci Diamond Hairbrush** - compared to that nothing else matters (+BA Bronze)
Posts: 15,123
And then you shouldn’t be surprised if you’re offloaded.
Jun 28, 2022, 6:51 am
#49
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,753
At the risk of this being deemed some sort of political point, find it a great pity that so many of my fellow travellers have now decided that it’s unnecessary to wear a mask and basically are saying to the rest of us, “Tough sh*t. I have no interest in your well being as I can’t abide having a mask.”
How much of a tragedy is it to wear
one for a few hours with Covid hitting
heights yet again and a couple of
million people in the UK alone experiencing Long Covid which has a long term negative affect on their lives?
How much of a tragedy is it to wear
one for a few hours with Covid hitting
heights yet again and a couple of
million people in the UK alone experiencing Long Covid which has a long term negative affect on their lives?
Jun 28, 2022, 6:57 am
#50
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,345
I flew to Olbia on 1 June with Easyjet. The gate agent wouldn't allow anyone through to the gate who didn't have an FFP2 facemask and was sending them off to buy one from a vending machine at Ł5 a pop. When we boarded the crew said that the restrictions had been changed that morning and no-one needed to wear a mask
Jun 28, 2022, 6:59 am
#51
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
It's frustrating when people in positions of authority get it wrong like this. But why on earth would you have got so "upset" about it that it led to talk of offloading you? Would it not have been easier just to slip a face covering on for a few minutes on while arguing your case?
in over 3 months, including KLM flights to FCO that halted the obligation against Italian rules, and VA flights that did not follow the Italian rule back in early May.
I just said to check the policy because i’v flown the very same flight several times in the past few weeks without mention of a mask , and if the policy applied only to that flight I would be glad to take the very next flight, where the policy would not be enforced
Jun 28, 2022, 7:04 am
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
While it's easy - and often very much justified - to lambast Italy for being archaic and bureaucratic, I'd like to point out two things:
1. The rule on masks on international flights was lifted this May
2. During the pandemic Italy has definitely not been the only one to change rule rapidly. Just for memory's sake, England moved Nigeria from green to hotel imprisonment at your cost for less than 3 weeks, with very little advance warning.
1. The rule on masks on international flights was lifted this May
2. During the pandemic Italy has definitely not been the only one to change rule rapidly. Just for memory's sake, England moved Nigeria from green to hotel imprisonment at your cost for less than 3 weeks, with very little advance warning.
Only on two occasions rule did not change in some major or minor detail between one flight. and the other. And I’ve not changed my origin and destination. Inconsistencies at all levels from ground personnel, border officials, etc etc, not to mention the airline employees almost in a confusional state. Doctors holding passports of arriving pax and not giving them back till negative test results (an overstepping of professional roles not to be ignored), draconian yet utterly irrelevant measures decided at the regional, city, county and township level….your memory might be good with England, but your knowledge of what happened in Italy is missing a few facts. An airport official I know in Rome told me this spring that his employees are very resistant to read and assimilate new rules that have been changing significantly every 2-3 weeks for more than two years and they default to some sort of middle ground.
Last edited by IkarosBOS; Jun 28, 2022 at 7:33 am
Jun 28, 2022, 7:06 am
#53
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
Jun 28, 2022, 7:14 am
#54
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
The crew are in a difficult position. The rules for each country are often (certainly historically) very different. The can only work with the information they have at the time, and are asked to enforce.
The penalties for being too lenient can be quite large. They do not have time to discuss with each and every passenger the rights and wrongs of that passengers beliefs, or whether they are right or wrong in those beliefs. Omicrom is surging again, the rules that you may have checked only 24 hours ago may well start to change again soon as politicians decide to get tough/or not again..
The crew are not being intentionally difficult, they have a job to do and want a peaceful and simple day at the office. Furthermore, a passenger being difficult and even mildly objectionable on boarding can easily end up escalating their behaviour onboard, please don’t make yourself a target at the start of the flight. Far simpler just to do what they ask and get on with your day, wearing a mask for a short while is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
The penalties for being too lenient can be quite large. They do not have time to discuss with each and every passenger the rights and wrongs of that passengers beliefs, or whether they are right or wrong in those beliefs. Omicrom is surging again, the rules that you may have checked only 24 hours ago may well start to change again soon as politicians decide to get tough/or not again..
The crew are not being intentionally difficult, they have a job to do and want a peaceful and simple day at the office. Furthermore, a passenger being difficult and even mildly objectionable on boarding can easily end up escalating their behaviour onboard, please don’t make yourself a target at the start of the flight. Far simpler just to do what they ask and get on with your day, wearing a mask for a short while is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
To force someone to wear a mask for 3 hrs when it is simply not required tends to raise objections. Which if raised firmly and courteously should be acceptable. The mistake
was fairly acknowledged
So no-one needs to be accused to be difficult. I know the rules and i will respect them as they are, but i have the right to challenge or at least ask for clarification should the rules be applied wrongly
Jun 28, 2022, 7:18 am
#55
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
Seems like the last time I was in Italy was April (seems more recent then that). I knew that in May Italy removed almost all mask and green pass requrements, but they kept them on public transport.
So I was going to join this thread and state that the rules in Italy required you to wear a mask, but it turns out that it's only for public transport within Italy (including domestic flights). So I learned something new here.
You can see how there can be misunderstandings though. Many Italians on-board probably think they need to wear as mask as they need to wear them on the bus, the train, domestic flights, etc
So I was going to join this thread and state that the rules in Italy required you to wear a mask, but it turns out that it's only for public transport within Italy (including domestic flights). So I learned something new here.
You can see how there can be misunderstandings though. Many Italians on-board probably think they need to wear as mask as they need to wear them on the bus, the train, domestic flights, etc
Jun 28, 2022, 7:21 am
#56
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
I think you are mistaking boarding an aircraft for the Oxford Union where you can debates the merits of lockdown law, pandemic response, the freedom of the individual vs the state etc. etc. All fascinating issues, but completely irrelevant to this scenario where you are told you are required to put a face covering on.
You are given a lawful instruction, and you are obliged to follow it.
You are given a lawful instruction, and you are obliged to follow it.
not BA - would object somehow. Some
more vehemently than others
Jun 28, 2022, 7:23 am
#57
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
And I think it is wholly unfair to suggest Italy has been either particularly bad or inconsistent with Covid management. They are a country hit very hard and very early by the pandemic through no fault of their own, have paid a hefty price, and reacted in a way that has been both efficient and much better respected by the public than in many supposedly-better-organised countries.[/QUOTE]
On these points (management, no fault of their own, efficient, respect of the public) I beg to disagree Orbitmic!
But thats OT and maybe if we meet in the CCR i’ll entangle you in a conversation to explain what lies behind my objections
You’ll need more than blue label so stay incognito if you want to avoid it!
On these points (management, no fault of their own, efficient, respect of the public) I beg to disagree Orbitmic!
But thats OT and maybe if we meet in the CCR i’ll entangle you in a conversation to explain what lies behind my objections
You’ll need more than blue label so stay incognito if you want to avoid it!
Last edited by IkarosBOS; Jun 28, 2022 at 7:37 am
Jun 28, 2022, 7:29 am
#58
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAS/FCO/JFK/LAX
Programs: DL DM/2MM, BA GGL/CCR,/GFL, A3 Gold, JBU Mosaic, ITA Executive, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 305
For me, life's too short. I hate wearing masks, but I'd have just got it out of my bag and stuck it on. An hour after landing I would have forgotten all about it.
It's still a confusing and complicated time to travel. I've found that the more flexible I can be and just roll with the punches, the less stressful the experience.
It's still a confusing and complicated time to travel. I've found that the more flexible I can be and just roll with the punches, the less stressful the experience.
Jun 28, 2022, 7:43 am
#59
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,765
Upon boarding 552 to FCO this morning i was handed a mask and said it was mandatory to wear.
Having flown the same route maskless several times this past 2 weeks, i asked the purser who made the new rules. At which point a courteous discussion in the front galley as to whether i would be allowed to fly maskless ensued. There was some talk of offloading and some irony about this not being a flight to the US (I guess my abdominal girth and English gives away my US passport). Then the dispatcher (or the ramp person) came onboard and told the purser he was wrong. An announcement for the whole plane followed rectifying the orders.
The purser was quite transparent in showing me the dispatch printed notes that were based on rules from last MARCH.
While I got a little upset at the beginning, I can only sympathize with foreign companies trying to do some business with a country like Italy that has been changing and elaborating rules on a bi-weekly basis, faster than their webmasters can update their sometimes prehistoric style websites.
Having flown the same route maskless several times this past 2 weeks, i asked the purser who made the new rules. At which point a courteous discussion in the front galley as to whether i would be allowed to fly maskless ensued. There was some talk of offloading and some irony about this not being a flight to the US (I guess my abdominal girth and English gives away my US passport). Then the dispatcher (or the ramp person) came onboard and told the purser he was wrong. An announcement for the whole plane followed rectifying the orders.
The purser was quite transparent in showing me the dispatch printed notes that were based on rules from last MARCH.
While I got a little upset at the beginning, I can only sympathize with foreign companies trying to do some business with a country like Italy that has been changing and elaborating rules on a bi-weekly basis, faster than their webmasters can update their sometimes prehistoric style websites.
Jun 28, 2022, 7:47 am
#60
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,765
As has been proven over the past few years, you cannot comply your way out of tyranny. Nor should anyone seek to do so regardless of the excuse used to induce compliance.
The correct response to this situation is politely challenging the incorrect instruction with facts, progressing as needed to whatever conclusion is necessary short of violence.
And shouldn't you update your signature to reflect what reality has shown us to be true?
The correct response to this situation is politely challenging the incorrect instruction with facts, progressing as needed to whatever conclusion is necessary short of violence.
And shouldn't you update your signature to reflect what reality has shown us to be true?