‘You have to mask up to fly to Italy’
Jun 28, 2022, 2:45 am
#16
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 138
I understand the principled view but surely the whole point is moot as you can say you have an exemption you’re not willing to discuss?
Jun 28, 2022, 3:02 am
#17
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Here nor There
Posts: 46
I think the key point is that based on what I read, half the crew would need to be offloaded for failing to wear the mask correctly as well?
Certainly on the flights I have done this year
Certainly on the flights I have done this year
Jun 28, 2022, 3:33 am
#18
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
When I was in the left hand seat I used to remind people this was not a democracy and I was the dictator, all be it a rather benign one.
Jun 28, 2022, 3:34 am
#19
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: London, Babylon-on-Thames
Programs: BAEC Blue (back to Earth)
Posts: 1,500
Jun 28, 2022, 4:04 am
#20
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Programs: Virgin Flying Club Red, Emirates Skywards Blue, BA Executive Club Blue, Amex BA
Posts: 2,375
It's not that hard for the purser to look online. Eg https://apply.joinsherpa.com/map?aff...language=en-US says
or https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-ad...virus-covid-19 says
Travelers must wear FFP2 type masks in social and health facilities and on public means of transport (trains, ships, ferries, buses, and other means of public transport), excluding airplanes. Travelers are recommended to wear masks in all public indoor places or places open to the public.
All passengers entering Italy by ferry, train or coach must wear an FFP2 mask in order to enter the country. Masks are no longer required on flights in, to or from Italy.
Jun 28, 2022, 4:13 am
#21
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: London
Programs: BA Silver, ZSL Silver
Posts: 2,551
For me, life's too short. I hate wearing masks, but I'd have just got it out of my bag and stuck it on. An hour after landing I would have forgotten all about it.
It's still a confusing and complicated time to travel. I've found that the more flexible I can be and just roll with the punches, the less stressful the experience.
It's still a confusing and complicated time to travel. I've found that the more flexible I can be and just roll with the punches, the less stressful the experience.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:15 am
#22
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 644
The crew are in a difficult position. The rules for each country are often (certainly historically) very different. The can only work with the information they have at the time, and are asked to enforce.
The penalties for being too lenient can be quite large. They do not have time to discuss with each and every passenger the rights and wrongs of that passengers beliefs, or whether they are right or wrong in those beliefs. Omicrom is surging again, the rules that you may have checked only 24 hours ago may well start to change again soon as politicians decide to get tough/or not again..
The crew are not being intentionally difficult, they have a job to do and want a peaceful and simple day at the office. Furthermore, a passenger being difficult and even mildly objectionable on boarding can easily end up escalating their behaviour onboard, please don’t make yourself a target at the start of the flight. Far simpler just to do what they ask and get on with your day, wearing a mask for a short while is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
The penalties for being too lenient can be quite large. They do not have time to discuss with each and every passenger the rights and wrongs of that passengers beliefs, or whether they are right or wrong in those beliefs. Omicrom is surging again, the rules that you may have checked only 24 hours ago may well start to change again soon as politicians decide to get tough/or not again..
The crew are not being intentionally difficult, they have a job to do and want a peaceful and simple day at the office. Furthermore, a passenger being difficult and even mildly objectionable on boarding can easily end up escalating their behaviour onboard, please don’t make yourself a target at the start of the flight. Far simpler just to do what they ask and get on with your day, wearing a mask for a short while is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
The correct response to this situation is politely challenging the incorrect instruction with facts, progressing as needed to whatever conclusion is necessary short of violence.
And shouldn't you update your signature to reflect what reality has shown us to be true?
Jun 28, 2022, 5:24 am
#23
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,888
As has been proven over the past few years, you cannot comply your way out of tyranny. Nor should anyone seek to do so regardless of the excuse used to induce compliance.
The correct response to this situation is politely challenging the incorrect instruction with facts, progressing as needed to whatever conclusion is necessary short of violence.
And shouldn't you update your signature to reflect what reality has shown us to be true?
The correct response to this situation is politely challenging the incorrect instruction with facts, progressing as needed to whatever conclusion is necessary short of violence.
And shouldn't you update your signature to reflect what reality has shown us to be true?
You are given a lawful instruction, and you are obliged to follow it.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:26 am
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY Metro
Programs: SPG Titanium, United Premier 1K
Posts: 1,601
It's frustrating when people in positions of authority get it wrong like this. But why on earth would you have got so "upset" about it that it led to talk of offloading you? Would it not have been easier just to slip a face covering on for a few minutes on while arguing your case?
Jun 28, 2022, 5:34 am
#25
Join Date: Feb 2018
Programs: Hyatt Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 644
I think you are mistaking boarding an aircraft for the Oxford Union where you can debates the merits of lockdown law, pandemic response, the freedom of the individual vs the state etc. etc. All fascinating issues, but completely irrelevant to this scenario where you are told you are required to put a face covering on.
You are given a lawful instruction, and you are obliged to follow it.
You are given a lawful instruction, and you are obliged to follow it.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:35 am
#26
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,888
Jun 28, 2022, 5:40 am
#27
formerly JackDann
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,647
I personally just find it difficult to comprehend that it is legal instruction to ask somebody to cover their face. Obviously I understood this when it was quite literally wrote into law, but now, not so much.
Maybe somebody who has the time and budget to challenge this aspect of the ANO in court can give it a go.
Maybe somebody who has the time and budget to challenge this aspect of the ANO in court can give it a go.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:41 am
#28
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 812
A funny thread where I think most people are making valid points. I would note that (mad though some of you no doubt think we are) some of us genuinely make travel decisions based on whether we are obliged to wear masks. I have no interest in masked long-haul travel. I could live with it on a short-haul route, but if I was greeted with this point on, say, an SFO, I'd be much less sympathetic to the crew.
To my mind the right approach here was to direct the crew member to their own airline's website which correctly sets out the Italian position, and to take details for a post-flight complaint if they insisted on mask-wearing regardless. Fortunately it looks like it didn't reach that point.
To my mind the right approach here was to direct the crew member to their own airline's website which correctly sets out the Italian position, and to take details for a post-flight complaint if they insisted on mask-wearing regardless. Fortunately it looks like it didn't reach that point.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:44 am
#29
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,888
I personally just find it difficult to comprehend that it is legal instruction to ask somebody to cover their face. Obviously I understood this when it was quite literally wrote into law, but now, not so much.
Maybe somebody who has the time and budget to challenge this aspect of the ANO in court can give it a go.
Maybe somebody who has the time and budget to challenge this aspect of the ANO in court can give it a go.
You seem to be under the impression an instruction can only be lawful if it is something which is codified in to law or specifically laid down in company policy. This is quite simply a completely incorrect understanding of what this term means.
Jun 28, 2022, 5:49 am
#30
formerly JackDann
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 1,647
I think that would be a very silly thing to do tbh and a waste of your time and money.
You seem to be under the impression an instruction can only be lawful if it is something which is codified in to law or specifically laid down in company policy. This is quite simply a completely incorrect understanding of what this term means.
You seem to be under the impression an instruction can only be lawful if it is something which is codified in to law or specifically laid down in company policy. This is quite simply a completely incorrect understanding of what this term means.