British Airways change in Conditions of Carriage after 30/9/22
Jun 26, 2022, 8:25 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: KSA
Programs: BA LTG, UA Gold, EK Silver, Hilton LT Diamond, Marriott LT Titanium, IHG Plat
Posts: 1,240
I received this email today from BA which I find very misleading (see part in bold)
We couldn't help noticing you're considering a trip to London. We could all do with a relaxing break and something to look forward to, so why don't you book it now?
With us, the excitement begins from the moment you book. We have travel tips, destination guides and local insights to inspire you and help you plan the perfect trip. And whether you’re itching to take off, or need a bit more time - our flexible booking options mean zero fees for changing your dates or destinations.
We can’t wait to welcome you back on board.
So i just picked a return date in July to see what the fare conditions are, picking standard economy, and see the following:
I am sure I can probably pick a full flexible ticket somewhere but that's not how I read what BA wrote to me.
Thoughts ??
We couldn't help noticing you're considering a trip to London. We could all do with a relaxing break and something to look forward to, so why don't you book it now?
With us, the excitement begins from the moment you book. We have travel tips, destination guides and local insights to inspire you and help you plan the perfect trip. And whether you’re itching to take off, or need a bit more time - our flexible booking options mean zero fees for changing your dates or destinations.
We can’t wait to welcome you back on board.
So i just picked a return date in July to see what the fare conditions are, picking standard economy, and see the following:
Changes to your ticket
Time/date changes permitted at any time before each flight departure for a change fee of SAR200 or an upgrade fee of SAR200 plus any difference in fare. Changes subject to availability. Fees apply per ticketI am sure I can probably pick a full flexible ticket somewhere but that's not how I read what BA wrote to me.
Thoughts ??
Jun 29, 2022, 8:22 am
#34
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: London
Programs: Gold at BA, Hilton and Radisson.
Posts: 586
Having read this entire thread again I respectfully disagree. Many people gave you help and advice as well as constructive feedback. You have chosen to ignore it perhaps as you don’t like it and it doesn’t get you what you want for free.
Jun 29, 2022, 8:31 am
#35
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
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I am afraid I have to agree with ScienceTeacher here - I feel you are struggling to understand that you cannot change your booking as you would wish, and so keep asking the question over and over again. Unless you look at this differently, I am not sure how much help this board can be going forward.
Regards
aks120
Regards
aks120
Jun 29, 2022, 8:58 am
#36
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Typically it will be expensive to try and turn an infexible ticket to a flexible one, particularly if it is in relation to the first flight. What may be getting lost in this is that a refund will typically be taxes only, a rebooking is a probably expensive reprice. There is nothing you can do now to get that ticket under BWC, however if BA cancels or heavily changes the outbound then you will get flexibility at that point. BA tends to make changes 2 or 3 weeks before departure.
Jun 29, 2022, 9:43 am
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 171
To answer the questions: you did actually show the change conditions for your fare, it's a scrape from the fare basis of NHW5C7M5, where BA.com has chopped off the header and footer information as well as applicability, since the fare obviously applies to get to that point. There is a general principle here that fare changes before travel involve a full repricing before departure, plus any change fee. After travel has started then you are on "historical" basis - that is in the repricing conditions. Depending on markets, this is a common situation. So if you want to move the date forward you have to pay. However it's not clear that you did buy NHW5C7M5. You can find the real fare basis via Royal Air Maroc in Manage Bookings / Purchase Conditions. In the first lines you will typically see BA and then the fare basis.
Typically it will be expensive to try and turn an infexible ticket to a flexible one, particularly if it is in relation to the first flight. What may be getting lost in this is that a refund will typically be taxes only, a rebooking is a probably expensive reprice. There is nothing you can do now to get that ticket under BWC, however if BA cancels or heavily changes the outbound then you will get flexibility at that point. BA tends to make changes 2 or 3 weeks before departure.
Typically it will be expensive to try and turn an infexible ticket to a flexible one, particularly if it is in relation to the first flight. What may be getting lost in this is that a refund will typically be taxes only, a rebooking is a probably expensive reprice. There is nothing you can do now to get that ticket under BWC, however if BA cancels or heavily changes the outbound then you will get flexibility at that point. BA tends to make changes 2 or 3 weeks before departure.
SECOND OMG, I have to go to a different carrier's website to get purchase conditions!!!! Great to see that I can use another carriers web site to see what my fare conditions are on BA, but ALAS not helpful. When I click on purchase conditions on Royal Air Maroc, I see the following under all tabs under purchase conditions (penalties and surchanges, additional purchase restrictions, etc.).
ADULT
Penalties
Not applicable to this fare.Not applicable to this fare.ADULT
Surcharges
Not applicable to this fare.Not applicable to this fare.Under Full rule textADULT
Full Rule Text
Not applicable to this fare.
Jun 29, 2022, 9:55 am
#38
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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I suspect that's the problem with the Avios component, which now complicates where you are. I seem to recall if it was Upgrade using Avios you could rescind the UuA for Ł35 but you get a recalculation on any fare difference going back down to World Traveller.
Last edited by corporate-wage-slave; Jun 29, 2022 at 10:00 am
Jun 29, 2022, 10:07 am
#39
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 171
I suspect that's the problem with the Avios component, which now complicates where you are. I seem to recall if it was Upgrade using Avios you could rescind the UuA for Ł35 but you get a recalculation on any fare difference going back down to World Traveller.
Jun 29, 2022, 10:13 am
#40
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Normally there would be a lot of detail there, including the fare basis, in one of the first few lines, but because (I suspect) of the Upgrade using Avios it's now outside Amadeus and effectively an internal fare. If you remove the UuA you end up with a public fare, but even to do that you have to pay Ł35 and pay to regularise your booking to WT. You basically need to talk to a clued up agent in Newcastle or Bremen (not India or South Africa) who can then tell you if the removed UuA + fees ends you in a better place than just throwing the ticket away.
Jun 29, 2022, 10:22 am
#41
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Just on the off chance, do you see the fare basis if you use this Finnair site?
https://www.finnair.com/gb-en/custom...ticket-receipt
This is only worth doing if you have access to the email address attached to the booking (not your BA profile). It does not work if there is no email on the booking or if your email goes to someone like your work's travel office.
https://www.finnair.com/gb-en/custom...ticket-receipt
This is only worth doing if you have access to the email address attached to the booking (not your BA profile). It does not work if there is no email on the booking or if your email goes to someone like your work's travel office.
Jun 29, 2022, 10:33 am
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Just on the off chance, do you see the fare basis if you use this Finnair site?
https://www.finnair.com/gb-en/custom...ticket-receipt
This is only worth doing if you have access to the email address attached to the booking (not your BA profile). It does not work if there is no email on the booking or if your email goes to someone like your work's travel office.
https://www.finnair.com/gb-en/custom...ticket-receipt
This is only worth doing if you have access to the email address attached to the booking (not your BA profile). It does not work if there is no email on the booking or if your email goes to someone like your work's travel office.
22Sep DEN-LHR Fare Basis NLN0C1B5
23Sep LHR-GLA Fare Basis NLN0C1B5
30Sep GLA-LCY Fare Basis NLN0C1M5
03Oct LHR-DEN Fare Basis NLN0C1M5
Also at the end of the booking reciept it shows this but no details:
Restriction(s)/Endorsements : Uua Redemption /Restrictions May Apply/Restricted Refund/Non Endorsable
Last edited by kimbray; Jun 29, 2022 at 10:41 am
Jun 29, 2022, 10:39 am
#43
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Normally there would be a lot of detail there, including the fare basis, in one of the first few lines, but because (I suspect) of the Upgrade using Avios it's now outside Amadeus and effectively an internal fare. If you remove the UuA you end up with a public fare, but even to do that you have to pay Ł35 and pay to regularise your booking to WT. You basically need to talk to a clued up agent in Newcastle or Bremen (not India or South Africa) who can then tell you if the removed UuA + fees ends you in a better place than just throwing the ticket away.
My question is HOW do you get to these BA super agents you reference? I agree, I have believed thru this process and a key lessen learned is don't book a "book and upgrade" fare with BA. It is better to book a fare and then call in to upgrade (I have done this before with no issues).
Jun 29, 2022, 12:29 pm
#44
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ba.com/contact-us
Code:
CHANGES ANY TIME CHANGES PERMITTED FOR REISSUE/REVALIDATION. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. WITH THE EXCEPTION OF TICKETS CHANGED IN THE US ANY PENALTY FEE MUST BE COLLECTED VIA AN EMD. REFER TO SPEEDBIRDCLUB.COM OR BATRAVELTRADE.COM AND YOUR GDS FOR INSTRUCTIONS. ---------------------------------------------- CHARGE APPLIES PER TRANSACTION - PER PERSON FOR ALL PASSENGER TYPES. INFANTS WITHOUT A SEAT - NO CHARGE. -------------------------------------------------- A CHANGE IS A DATE/FLIGHT/ROUTING/BOOKING CODE CHANGE. NEW RESERVATION AND REISSUE/REVALIDATION MUST BE MADE ON THE SAME DAY. -------------------------------------------------- REISSUE MUST BE MADE THE SAME DAY AS CHANGE OF RESERVATION BUT NO LATER THAN SCHEDULED DEPARTURE TIME OF FLIGHT BEING CHANGED. OTHERWISE THE TICKET WILL ONLY BE VALID FOR REFUND IF APPLICABLE. -------------------------------------------------- WHEN MORE THAN ONE FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED THE HIGHEST PENALTY OF ALL CHANGED FARE COMPONENTS WITHIN THE JOURNEY APPLIES. -------------------------------------------------- --- REPRICING CONDITIONS --- A. BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY WHEN THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT IS CHANGED THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE THE TICKET IS REISSUED. B. BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY WHEN CHANGES ARE TO BOOKING CODE ONLY IN THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT AND RESULT IN A HIGHER FARE THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKETING DATE OR USING CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE THE TICKET IS REISSUED - WHICHEVER IS LOWER. C. BEFORE DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY WHEN THERE ARE NO CHANGES TO THE FIRST FARE COMPONENT BUT OTHER FARE COMPONENTS ARE CHANGED THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKETING DATE OR USING CURRENT FARES IN EFFECT ON THE DATE THE TICKET IS REISSUED- WHICHEVER IS LOWER. D. AFTER DEPARTURE OF JOURNEY THE ITINERARY MUST BE RE-PRICED USING HISTORICAL FARES IN EFFECT ON THE PREVIOUS TICKETING DATE. -------------------------------------------------- 1. IF SAME BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW TICKET VALUE MUST BE LOWER - EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED. 2. IF A DIFFERENT BOOKING CLASS IS USED NEW TICKET VALUE MUST BE EQUAL OR HIGHER THAN PREVIOUS AND MUST COMPLY WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THE NEW FARE BEING APPLIED. -------------------------------------------------- WHEN THE ITINERARY RESULTS IN A HIGHER FARE THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE COLLECTED. ANY APPLICABLE CHANGE FEE STILL APPLIES. -------------------------------------------------- ANY NON-REFUNDABLE AMOUNT FROM A PREVIOUS TICKET REMAINS NON-REFUNDABLE FOLLOWING A CHANGE. -------------------------------------------------- NO-SHOWS FOR A FLIGHT ARE CONSIDERED A CANCELLATION AFTER DEPARTURE AND CHANGES ARE NOT PERMITTED.
Jun 29, 2022, 1:16 pm
#45
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 171
Again super helpful! So the fare has been changing a lot during this time that I was in no man's land and calling in and not getting anywhere. When I was first looking into changing the trip in total and looking to rebook, the costs were as following (mid June), World Traveller $760 round trip with changeable language at time of booking (I tried multi city booking to include GLA-LCY but it was double this price and I could book stand alone for $107 for the one way). For World Traveller Plus, again with no "book and upgrade" and just paying cash, the fare with all taxes/fees was $1,578 (again, booking GLA-LCY independantly as much less expensive; $182 for business). At that time, fi I had a super agent at BA, in theory I could have rebooked my entire itenerary for 35 pound change fee and the overall total would have been less than existing reservation.
Alas, however, after 15-20 hours on the phone with NOT super BA bookign agents, multiple posts on this thread that got me no closer to a resolution, and lots of time past by: the fares have gone up... imagine that! However, still a World Traveller Plus cash for 25/9 to 3/10 with me ADDING the GLA-LCY seperately is $1,799.37 currently plus cost of GLA-LCY to be added.
BTW, on all times calling I was calling during US hours and still every time ended with India. If I decide to be proactive and not wait to have BA change a leg, I would be calling back, go on hold for an hour, most likely get an India agent, ask to be transfered, wait on hold again, and maybe just maybe find someone that knows the crazy rules of BA and the process to get them rectified.
THANK YOU AGAIN corporate-wage-slave, because without you, this thread would have ended without the insights you provided over last few hours that I have been desperately been seeking since June 8th.
Thank you for:
1) Reading my post that had the nhw5c7m5 in the screen capture that gave you some insight into asking me to do a few things and interacting with me quickly via this post.
2) Asking me to go Royal Air Maroc's site to see the purchase conditions
3) When that did not work, asking me to go to FinnAir and check and behold my FARE BASIS! Again amazing that NONE of this detail is on "manage my bookings on BA site"
4) Sharing the ExpertFlyer info on my fare basis language and posting so I am armed for my next call with BA if I choose to do.
AMAZING interaction and details in a few hours that I have been so desperately seeking! THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
I am now armed with the details needed to interact effectively with BA as opposed to the response, "You are not allowed to change your outbound" from all the previous interactions with BA's call center.
PS - My hope is that someone on flyertalk in the future reads this post (specifically just the last 4-5 hours where real progress was made) and gains insight into the "book and upgrade" process with British Airways.
Alas, however, after 15-20 hours on the phone with NOT super BA bookign agents, multiple posts on this thread that got me no closer to a resolution, and lots of time past by: the fares have gone up... imagine that! However, still a World Traveller Plus cash for 25/9 to 3/10 with me ADDING the GLA-LCY seperately is $1,799.37 currently plus cost of GLA-LCY to be added.
BTW, on all times calling I was calling during US hours and still every time ended with India. If I decide to be proactive and not wait to have BA change a leg, I would be calling back, go on hold for an hour, most likely get an India agent, ask to be transfered, wait on hold again, and maybe just maybe find someone that knows the crazy rules of BA and the process to get them rectified.
THANK YOU AGAIN corporate-wage-slave, because without you, this thread would have ended without the insights you provided over last few hours that I have been desperately been seeking since June 8th.
Thank you for:
1) Reading my post that had the nhw5c7m5 in the screen capture that gave you some insight into asking me to do a few things and interacting with me quickly via this post.
2) Asking me to go Royal Air Maroc's site to see the purchase conditions
3) When that did not work, asking me to go to FinnAir and check and behold my FARE BASIS! Again amazing that NONE of this detail is on "manage my bookings on BA site"
4) Sharing the ExpertFlyer info on my fare basis language and posting so I am armed for my next call with BA if I choose to do.
AMAZING interaction and details in a few hours that I have been so desperately seeking! THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
I am now armed with the details needed to interact effectively with BA as opposed to the response, "You are not allowed to change your outbound" from all the previous interactions with BA's call center.
PS - My hope is that someone on flyertalk in the future reads this post (specifically just the last 4-5 hours where real progress was made) and gains insight into the "book and upgrade" process with British Airways.
